5E - Aura Effects

[Moon Wizard]

Also, just so there are no surprises.

Until there is consensus between all of you (including SR) about how the Auras should work; I'm not planning to integrate any further changes to Auras except what is in Live. Basically, I don't want to be the judge for this whole debate; but I also don't want to let a single person drive this without owning the extension 100%.

As I alluded to above, if/when we do something official with Auras, it will be something that works in 95+% of scenarios using official, consistent rules with little to no options.

Regards,
JPG

[nephranka]

Not directly about diagonals but an issue around how Auras work. Adding for context:

In the case of S1 and S2, in the current AURAs ext, these do not trigger the effect but it could be argued they should based on 5.5e rules.

In S3, the aura triggers in the current version of the AURAs ext.

[Moon Wizard]

@nephranka,

I'm sure I tested that scenario originally; but might have gotten lost in integrating SR code or I never checked Large+ creatures.

At any rate, I've rewritten the sphere aura handling logic to be vastly simpler; and provided the code to SR as well.

The latest is in the FG Forge now.

Regards,
JPG

[nephranka]

@nephranka,

I'm sure I tested that scenario originally; but might have gotten lost in integrating SR code or I never checked Large+ creatures.

At any rate, I've rewritten the sphere aura handling logic to be vastly simpler; and provided the code to SR as well.

The latest is in the FG Forge now.

Regards,
JPG

The new version is better but it requires like in the S1 to be a full grid covered to trigger. I believe it should have fired at the halfway mark (S2).

[Moon Wizard]

That is correct; and how the rules work.
The "distance" measure between two tokens is used to determine if a creature is "within" an aura (i.e. they are X distance away, so within X distance aura.).

The desire to have some sort of "touching" option is not part of the official rules.
Is that what the whole discussion with SR has been about? Wanting a "touching aura" option?

Regards,
JPG

[nephranka]

That is correct; and how the rules work.
The "distance" measure between two tokens is used to determine if a creature is "within" an aura (i.e. they are X distance away, so within X distance aura.).

The desire to have some sort of "touching" option is not part of the official rules.
Is that what the whole discussion with SR has been about? Wanting a "touching aura" option?

Regards,
JPG

I get that. S2 is a half grid covered and not touching case. I assume if half a grid is covered then it should trigger and it does not. Unless I misunderstand the touching case.

Areas of Effect
DMG
p44
An area of effect must be translated onto squares or hexes to determine which potential targets are in the area. If the area has a point of origin, choose an intersection of squares or hexes to be the point of origin, then follow its rules as normal. If an area of effect covers at least half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected.

[SilentRuin]

That is correct; and how the rules work.
The "distance" measure between two tokens is used to determine if a creature is "within" an aura (i.e. they are X distance away, so within X distance aura.).

The desire to have some sort of "touching" option is not part of the official rules.
Is that what the whole discussion with SR has been about? Wanting a "touching aura" option?

Regards,
JPG

I'm pretty frustrated with the conflicting "what is wanted" that seems to change on the fly from my perspective. I've spent WAY to much time on this so I'm going to just go on finishing up my "touching" AURA targeting as I've already completed it on the AdvantagesPA.ext for pointer shape selections. Both AURA and PA were doing center point target interceptions and I won't get into the "blocky" world argument where diagonals determine what is really in or out of things like circles. I was on one side of the argument then convinced to implement the "touching" targets then everyone seemed to switch sides again. I'm confused and frustrated. So...

Unless you guys want my version to add options into or not I'm going my own way with my own version. Here is what "touching" intercepts look like - the left huge critter intercepts to an aura are on the left with red blocks showing why they triggered - and the right side is a pointer shape example (the worst and hardest one) with the red block showing why it was triggered. Anyway going to just see if I can't debug out some of the things that have bugged me with aura filtering of when to process something for years and see if I can resolve it without any lag hits. [This image campaign was done with grid lock on and 1x diagonal like crazy people do - I play grid lock off and raw like the sane I want my distances to make sense not blocky weird distances. ]

[Moon Wizard]

@nephranka,

Are you using "Raw" distance option? I noticed the "15.1'" distance in your picture.

I think rounding will be an issue in raw; so may need to add a small error range to the range check in Auras if set measure distance set to Raw.

Regards,
JPG

[MrDDT]

My understanding is that the current FG targeting figures are based on this.

Center of source's edge grid space to center of targets edge grid space.

So if there are 3 grids between edges of creatures spaces. It should list as 20ft away. If there is 10 grid squares between creatures, it should be 55ft away from each other.
This always adds a 2.5ft buffer (assuming grids are 5ft) between the 2.
Using RAW it's the same concept only rounding is different for final output, and diagonal calcs.
If you use 1.5x this would just change diagonal calcs of the "center of a grid space" and distance "between"

So final output is always
1/2 a gridspace based on setting of diagonal calc to the center of that space from target. We will call that (SourceDist)
1/2 a gridspace based on setting of diagonal calc to the center of that space from the source. We will call that (TargetDist)
Distanced between edges of creatures based on settings of diagonal calcs from source to target. We will call that (Between)

Output is : SourceDist + TargetDist + Between = Distance.

The problem with AURA is that SourceDist, should be the exact edge of the source creature not SourceDist, when using POINT, it should be centered on the center of the space. Or you could say 1/2 SourceSpace.

Using the FG normal distance calc should not be used for AOEs or AURAs. Because it's adding in the extra SourceDist, plus it's not triggering on the edge of TargetSpace.

This would also be a problem for anyone wanting to use a normal looking distance for circles/spheres even when using a 1x (default 5E) grid distances as we all know going at a diagonal will then make Fireballs into CubeBalls.
So having an option for people (which in my opinion is the way most people play) is to use a more visual AURA/AOE calc for circles/spheres where its based on the 1.5x or RAW (RAW likely best) to trigger if something is in the area or not.


If you need more pictures or something to explain this I can, but I think I've explained it well.
Questions are
1) How can we make this happen without lagging the system.
2) What are the options
3) What is really going to be played in what options.


Personally, I think there should be a distance option outside of the "house rules" distance option just for AOEs/Auras. This allows people to play with Cubeballs or Fireballs. Even when using 1x (default) for house rules.

I also think this will give people options for how it's triggered closer to what they expect, like SR's version where he wants RAW, no Snap, when a creature looks like its in the area, it's affected.

[Moon Wizard]

According to rulebooks (which @bwatford and I just went over); it requires half the grid space to be affected (which we take as center point of a grid sqaure included in AoE).
So, a creature must be half a grid inside to be affected; not touching.
However, also in discussion with @bwatford, we determined that the Internet is split on how circular AoE should be measured; so considering an option for how circular auras should be handled (Shaped vs. Squared).

Given that I've been given two competing fixes and nobody agreeing or wanting to own or work with the others; I'm pretty close to just saying "good enough" or shutting it down...
I don't have the time budget to cater to all the different desires; and this is not my primary focus. It's actually taking away from getting other features done...

Regards,
JPG