5E Automatic Effects

[Lo Zeno]

I believe the plan is to make them more automated by adding better coding using BCEG which has updated a lot of info, so its a large project.

And that's understandable, but as I said: it's the deafening SILENCE the problem. This thread fell down a couple of pages in the forum, there's no communications to reassure users that things are brewing, there's nothing to stop users from deciding that investing their money in an alternative (e.g. mad nomad's extension with Rob2e modules) that is kept up to date regularly is better than waiting.
A smart publisher once said that silence is what kills your user base.

[BushViper]

I absolutely love the automatic effects modules, but the releases have fallen behind a bit with the handbooks published by WoTC: in the spelljammer campaign I run, half of the characters have their racial abilities automated, the other half (those who chose Spelljammer specific races) must be handled by hand; Dragonlance is another great absent; Ravnica, Wildemount, Theros (just to mention a few campaigns I run) have never been ported to 5e Automated Effects; I understand not having an eta but the deafening silence almost makes it look like a dead project by now.

As MrDDT said, the team behind BCEG is expanding its functionality. BCEG was already a tremendous amount of work, but adding direct support for another entire suite of extensions (which dramatically expand and improve BCEGs automation) it created orders of magnitude more work. FGU is a finnicky beast and requires perfection to work correctly. Writing and testing literally 1000s of code entries takes time. Particularly when it's the responsibility of a handful of people. There's no doubt that the BCE line of extensions is profitable, but no one is getting rich from them. Primarily because FGU is a niche market, but also because the opportunity cost is so high with it taking hundreds and hundreds of manhours to complete a product. More than anything, BCEG is a labor of love.

Obviously, I don't have a clue what your level of experience is with using FGU, but while you wait for the team to get caught up on the mountain of work they have in front of them, you can do exactly what they're doing, but on a much smaller scale and only set up the things you need instead of every ability, spell, feat, potion, condition, trap, poison, weapon, trait, etc., etc., etc.

All the information is readily available and another creator even went so far as to create a free extension (Effect Builder) where you can easily construct the same type of code (with a few exceptions) that the BCEG team is doing for everything.

[Lo Zeno]

As MrDDT said, the team behind BCEG is expanding its functionality. BCEG was already a tremendous amount of work, but adding direct support for another entire suite of extensions (which dramatically expand and improve BCEGs automation) it created orders of magnitude more work. FGU is a finnicky beast and requires perfection to work correctly. Writing and testing literally 1000s of code entries takes time. Particularly when it's the responsibility of a handful of people. There's no doubt that the BCE line of extensions is profitable, but no one is getting rich from them. Primarily because FGU is a niche market, but also because the opportunity cost is so high with it taking hundreds and hundreds of manhours to complete a product. More than anything, BCEG is a labor of love.

Obviously, I don't have a clue what your level of experience is with using FGU, but while you wait for the team to get caught up on the mountain of work they have in front of them, you can do exactly what they're doing, but on a much smaller scale and only set up the things you need instead of every ability, spell, feat, potion, condition, trap, poison, weapon, trait, etc., etc., etc.

All the information is readily available and another creator even went so far as to create a free extension (Effect Builder) where you can easily construct the same type of code (with a few exceptions) that the BCEG team is doing for everything.

To answer some of your questions, I might have the skills and tools (Effect Builder, as you say) to cover the parts that I need and are missing, but the amount of campaigns I'm running mean that most of my free time is used to write, prepare, adapt those campaigns; this is the very reason why I purchased the Automated Effects modules immediately after I found out of their existence, and that's basically the reason why everybody who buys non-free extensions and contents for FGU does it: we don't have the time, so we are willing to give money.

But that is missing the point of the post: the point I'm trying to make for the third time with this reply is that the damn silence does not help the users who are trying to decide if it's an investment worth doing or not. I'm obviously not good at making the point across, so I guess I'll apologise for wasting everyone's time.

[BushViper]

To answer some of your questions, I might have the skills and tools (Effect Builder, as you say) to cover the parts that I need and are missing, but the amount of campaigns I'm running mean that most of my free time is used to write, prepare, adapt those campaigns; this is the very reason why I purchased the Automated Effects modules immediately after I found out of their existence, and that's basically the reason why everybody who buys non-free extensions and contents for FGU does it: we don't have the time, so we are willing to give money.

But that is missing the point of the post: the point I'm trying to make for the third time with this reply is that the damn silence does not help the users who are trying to decide if it's an investment worth doing or not. I'm obviously not good at making the point across, so I guess I'll apologise for wasting everyone's time.

First, while I can't speak for anyone else, I can say that you're not wasting my time.

Also, I was writing my post when you replied to DDT about missing the fundamental point of your message and that's why I didn't address it directly.

That said, I genuinely can't speak on whether or not Aridhro is regularly communicating with the users of BCE(G) given that I don't use the forums much at all anymore. So, for now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there isn't much happening on that front.

Now, part of me understands where you're coming from, but I also feel that your expectations of him (and/or the small BCE(G) team) might be a little misguided. The crew behind BCE(G) is constantly updating the extension by increasing functionality, streamlining performance, resolving conflicts with other extensions, rapidly restoring compatibility with FGU after disruptive patches, and more. If the BCE(G) team never did another thing with the extension, the price of admission has been WELL worth it.

Personally, I'm not bothered by the fact product releases have slowed down to a crawl. My lack of concern is partially driven by the fact that I understand what they're working towards and how much space it takes up on their metaphorical plate. However, I think the primary reason I'm not bothered by the relative silence is because I don't need them to code stuff for me. Certainly, having them do the work is a massive convenience, but it really doesn't take long to code the few things that come up session to session. Sometimes I even prefer to do it myself because there's usually several different ways to do things and the way they'll write it isn't always the way I would.

Obviously, our situations are completely different and from the sound of it, my approach is not a viable solution for you. Though I do wonder if the lack of content updates is making your numerous games objectively worse because you don't have time to do code tune-ups, wouldn't it make sense to reduce how frequently one of the campaigns plays or cut one of them entirely so that you do? I'm sure the immediate (and possibly correct) reaction to my recommendation is "I shouldn't have to do that," but even if Aridhro had made regular, bi-weekly forum posts humbly apologizing for not being able to keep pace with WotCs release schedule, would anything have really changed, for anyone?

[Lo Zeno]

First, while I can't speak for anyone else, I can say that you're not wasting my time.

Also, I was writing my post when you replied to DDT about missing the fundamental point of your message and that's why I didn't address it directly.

That said, I genuinely can't speak on whether or not Aridhro is regularly communicating with the users of BCE(G) given that I don't use the forums much at all anymore. So, for now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there isn't much happening on that front.

Now, part of me understands where you're coming from, but I also feel that your expectations of him (and/or the small BCE(G) team) might be a little misguided. The crew behind BCE(G) is constantly updating the extension by increasing functionality, streamlining performance, resolving conflicts with other extensions, rapidly restoring compatibility with FGU after disruptive patches, and more. If the BCE(G) team never did another thing with the extension, the price of admission has been WELL worth it.

Personally, I'm not bothered by the fact product releases have slowed down to a crawl. My lack of concern is partially driven by the fact that I understand what they're working towards and how much space it takes up on their metaphorical plate. However, I think the primary reason I'm not bothered by the relative silence is because I don't need them to code stuff for me. Certainly, having them do the work is a massive convenience, but it really doesn't take long to code the few things that come up session to session. Sometimes I even prefer to do it myself because there's usually several different ways to do things and the way they'll write it isn't always the way I would.

Obviously, our situations are completely different and from the sound of it, my approach is not a viable solution for you. Though I do wonder if the lack of content updates is making your numerous games objectively worse because you don't have time to do code tune-ups, wouldn't it make sense to reduce how frequently one of the campaigns plays or cut one of them entirely so that you do? I'm sure the immediate (and possibly correct) reaction to my recommendation is "I shouldn't have to do that," but even if Aridhro had made regular, bi-weekly forum posts humbly apologizing for not being able to keep pace with WotCs release schedule, would anything have really changed, for anyone?

Here's the thing: in not taking about BCE(G), which has excellent communication about the advancements made and had active engagement with the user base, I'm taking specifically of the Automated Effects modules, which, while done by the same people and obviously integrated with BCE(G), are a separate line of products with a separate, if overlapping, use case. The communication here is lacking, and no it doesn't have to be apologies for the lack of news, that's a misguided view on what engagement with the users is: there's better and more constructive ways to engage and show that the line is not abandoned. And yes it would help, because I'm at the point where I'm trying to decide whether it's worth waiting for new Automated Effects modules to be released, doing what I can by myself either by hand on the spot or coding the few effects that my time allows while I wait, or should I bite the bullet and make another monetary investment in a "competitor" solution so to speak.

As for my personal situation: DMing is a source of income to me -not the only one, but not one I can afford to reduce right now. Simplifying the situation a lot. So reducing the frequency of some of my campaigns is something I considered, but I can't reasonably do at this particular moment in time.

[Lo Zeno]

To clarify something: it's not that the lack of content updates is making my games objectively worse, but some more contents would free up some much needed time from my game prep and game management. Time being a resource that I can only consume, not increase, means that I am trying to make the best decision that would shorten the time I have to dedicate to preparing and running the games

[SilentRuin]

Personally, when I did EE I was asked if I'd do data modules to go with it and refused. Its a horror show to build this type of data, not to mention a royal pain in the ***. I'm grateful someone else took up this thankless task to build these modules and I continue to use them "as is" currently.

Would it be nice to get a whole raft of new features put into them for no further expenditure by me since I already own them? Sure I love free stuff for no effort on my part, as I already have what I paid for, and am quite pleased with it.

But that's probably because I fully understand (having done SW5E data set for myself) that DATA sucks and is evil incarnate to manage and maintain.

So - while I agree I'd like lots of more stuff added in? Good enough - is good enough for me. Don't get me wrong there are holes in it I find occasionally - but I can do anything I really want myself. Its the vast bulk of data already defined correctly that is lazy enhancing to running my games which I like.

Still - I support your quest for fixes and more free stuff added in on top of what I paid for! I fully and unequivocally support the rallying cry of...

GIMMEE!!!

[Nor would I pretend its other than what it is ]

[Lo Zeno]

Personally, when I did EE I was asked if I'd do data modules to go with it and refused. Its a horror show to build this type of data, not to mention a royal pain in the ***. I'm grateful someone else took up this thankless task to build these modules and I continue to use them "as is" currently.

Would it be nice to get a whole raft of new features put into them for no further expenditure by me since I already own them? Sure I love free stuff for no effort on my part, as I already have what I paid for, and am quite pleased with it.

But that's probably because I fully understand (having done SW5E data set for myself) that DATA sucks and is evil incarnate to manage and maintain.

So - while I agree I'd like lots of more stuff added in? Good enough - is good enough for me. Don't get me wrong there are holes in it I find occasionally - but I can do anything I really want myself. Its the vast bulk of data already defined correctly that is lazy enhancing to running my games which I like.

Still - I support your quest for fixes and more free stuff added in on top of what I paid for! I fully and unequivocally support the rallying cry of...

GIMMEE!!!

[Nor would I pretend its other than what it is ]

...Who mentioned free stuff?
I'm talking about the Automatic Effects Modules by Grim Press, Duncan Bachen, Trevor Armstrong, sold on DMsGuild, advertised at the beginning of this thread, which I have paid regularly (every single one of them). And what I am asking is to know if there will be (or not) more modules which I can buy and pay, to cover the D&D handbooks that have been printed, with their races, subclasses and items. Because as far as I can tell, that's the sales module of 5e Automatic Effect: each module covers one D&D handbook, and each module needs to be purchased separately, with its own price. Am I right or am I ****ing right?
I think I have made pretty clear that to me money and time are currencies, and where I can't spend time I am more than happy to spend money to do what otherwise I can't.

I really don't appreciate your sarcasm, SilentRuin. Go back and re-read my messages.

[SilentRuin]

...Who mentioned free stuff?
I'm talking about the Automatic Effects Modules by Grim Press, Duncan Bachen, Trevor Armstrong, sold on DMsGuild, advertised at the beginning of this thread, which I have paid regularly (every single one of them). And what I am asking is to know if there will be (or not) more modules which I can buy and pay, to cover the D&D handbooks that have been printed, with their races, subclasses and items. Because as far as I can tell, that's the sales module of 5e Automatic Effect: each module covers one D&D handbook, and each module needs to be purchased separately, with its own price. Am I right or am I ****ing right?
I think I have made pretty clear that to me money and time are currencies, and where I can't spend time I am more than happy to spend money to do what otherwise I can't.

I really don't appreciate your sarcasm, SilentRuin. Go back and re-read my messages.

I am talking about BCEG being readded into existing modules.. which they will get no more money for as I own them. I could care less about new modules as I have all the ones I plan to use. Perhaps I confused your ongoing conversation with others where BCEG was mentioned but that is the context I'm replying to. New modules? Don't care. Old ones with more fixes/enhancements/BCEG support? Sure! GIMMEE!

And I won't pretend that is any other type of request than give me more for free (as I already own it). If you want new modules? That's for you to decide and does not apply. For me - I'm all about the GIMMEE!

Interpret it as you see fit

[Lo Zeno]

This sentence here:

Still - I support your quest for fixes and more free stuff added in on top of what I paid for! I fully and unequivocally support the rallying cry of...

GIMMEE!!!

When my quest, as you call it, has zero to do with BCE(G), and has nothing to do with adding free stuff, has only one way of being interpreted and it is implying that I am whining like a baby clutching my hands to the air because I want free stuff.
Which means that either you haven't read zilch of what I was writing, or your reading comprehension needs some work.

Interpret those words as you see fit