4.6 Issue - Recurring Frequent 'freezing' with Maps opened

[Artrem]

First off, I am not well versed in programming, so my apologies if terminology is off.

I looked for a similar thread with issues seen after updating and I did not see a similar thread. Apologies if already addressed or recognized.

Since updating to 4.6 there is a persistent freezing that occurs approximately every second or so when maps with LOS and tokens are opened. This was not present prior to updating to 4.6 (been on the same map for past 2 sessions prior to 4.6 upgrade).

I updated Fantasy Grounds about 90 minutes prior to this posting and still having the issue.

I created a quick YouTube video to demonstrate what is occurring as I may not be explaining it well. I did have extensions within our campaign, which have been removed but no improvement was noted after removal. The beginning of the video shows the current campaign with no extensions enabled.

At the end of the video (2:40ish), you'll see that I created a fresh campaign, imported my PC's characters, opened same map from FGU princes of the apocalypse campaign as well as inserted the encounter and still had frequent freezing when the map was open.

This 'freezing' that is being seen occurs during any activity as long as a map image is open. It occurs with typing, opening any entries, dice rolling, clicking on items, or typing into chat or creating entries.

Video: https://youtu.be/nDLQDvAXJE0?si=R0r3CwgadSZZezCb

I included a link to zip of current campaign: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JfX...usp=drive_link

I included a link to zip of fresh (Test) campaign: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H6X...usp=drive_link

Thanks for taking a look and hope it helps find the issues. If anything else is needed, just let me know.

Artrem

[ThirdSign]

I'm seeing this too in a PF2e campaign with Season of the Ghosts: The summer that never was, Player Core/GM Core loaded. Extensions are PF2e GM Enhancements and clock adjuster

I attached the campaign folder. The map I have open is (Map) Downtown Willowshore

[Sybarite]

We are also having this issue since the update and it makes the platform nearly impossible to use.

[Justanevildm]

I am having the exact same issue since the Tuesday 19th update. If more then one map is open the computer will crash and freeze. This was not a problem on Monday the 18th

[Moon Wizard]

@Sybarite, @Justanevildm,

We just pushed a hot fix release (in the last half hour) that should help with maps that exceed the recommended sizes (>4Kx4K). Please run a new Check for Updates on the Live channel, and let us know if you're still seeing an issue.

Regards,
JPG

[Artrem]

@Moon Wizard

I wanted to follow up with my original post since you had only addressed the last two individuals in this post (unsure if the fix was also for myself and @ThirdSign). I appreciate the attention to all the issues with this patch. This last hot fix has significantly improved what I had shown previously in the video. It has returned to performance of prior patch. There has always been a slight millisecond delay intermittently prior to this patch which is tolerable and barely noticable. That is where it is currently.

Today's campaign test video: https://youtu.be/KbH25XOLPtc



As a side note, you identified that this hot fix release was to address maps that exceed the recommended sized (>4Kx4K). The maps I am using in this campaign (and the test campaign I created) are the default maps for FG conversion by @Zacchaeus of Princes of the Apocalypse on Fantasy Grounds store (converted in 2015). This is the second time I have run this module (first was in FGC in 2016 (https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...ZE5IAnIEQIl0Gi)

If the maps are too big for FGU (>4Kx4K), why are they in the official modules by smiteworks or not better optimized (i suspect they are not webp since it was converted a long time ago)?

If it was a custom map, I'd understand, but I thought all the official modules were made within the parameters for module conversions and the store? (https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassia...uct+Guidelines)

This is why I use the default maps with all the products I've purchased from Smiteworks. If I make a homebrew campaign with my own images, I assume all responsibility.


Maybe Smiteworks owner, @ddavison should direct individuals to work on older products to clean up their quality and/or reduce the pricing for future customers who are unaware of the un-optimized products that are now being sold.

Salty? yes, as it's implied that the issue was maps being used outside the recommended size as the issue. I am using an official smiteworks conversion of POTA. Why spend the money if the product is inferior?


Best,
Artrem

[Zacchaeus]

None of the maps in PotA come even close to exceeding the recommended size for Unity. As you say this is an old adventure and it was developed for Classic where the limits were actually about half of what they are for Unity.

I'm not seeing any of the issues from your video but since there have been updates since your post whatever the issue was it may well have been fixed.

[Artrem]

Thanks for your reply @Zacchaeus. I have always felt your posts and conversions have been spot on, so I was surprised to see your name on the store page for it. If you did not work on POTA, then you need to talk to Smiteworks because they clearly have you listed as doing the adaptation:

POTA-Zacchaeus.JPG

None of the maps in PotA come even close to exceeding the recommended size for Unity. As you say this is an old adventure - which I did not convert btw - and it was developed for Classic where the limits were actually about half of what they are for Unity.

I appreciate you stating with confidence that none of the maps in PotA are not even close to exceeding the recommendations for Unity. I have to take your word for it as I am not unscrupulous and have no way to see inside a passworded zip file that contains the actual image to confirm nor deny that it's the recommended size.

I understand it was made for FGC and released in 2015. However, Dungeon of the Mad Mage was released in 2018 (which I know you did adapt to FG) and it was bad for Unity and you even stated today that you converted it to webp some time ago (also fixed the LOS points which PotA desperately needs as it uses old techniques with tons of points not needed).

discord - zacchaeus.JPG

Fantasy Grounds Unity wasn't even started as a Kickstarter until 2019 and wasn't officially released until November of 2020.

So, to think that just because it was made prior to Unity, I wouldn't make the assumption that it's optimized for Unity.

I'm not seeing any of the issues from your video but since there have been updates since your post whatever the issue was it may well have been fixed.

In case you didn't see the first video on the first post, here's the context of what it has looked like after every hot fix since 4.6 release (yes, I have updated and tried it out every day since our Wednesday night game):

First Video (issue) https://youtu.be/nDLQDvAXJE0

Second Video (resolved) https://youtu.be/KbH25XOLPtc


So, if the map is not the issue and as @Moon-Wizard posted in this thread last night:

@Sybarite, @Justanevildm,

We just pushed a hot fix release (in the last half hour) that should help with maps that exceed the recommended sizes (>4Kx4K). Please run a new Check for Updates on the Live channel, and let us know if you're still seeing an issue.

Regards,
JPG

This begs the question, what was the issue?

If I have a clean campaign where I have no extensions, loaded my pc's into campaign, open the official modules from FG only, then open the map in question, load the encounter and it does the same thing (frequent freezing as seen in first video) every day for the last three days (multiple hot fixes). He posts this today and now everything is back to the way it was for 4.5 (second video).

What is the issue?

It's not the map size as Moon stated?

Please, help me understand the issue, so when I am making my own modules for my use (I do this very often, my players wanted to play PotA), I don't want to run into issues again.

Or, do we not know what the issue is and are blaming it on the size of the map?

I ask, because blaming the map size seems to be the growing sentiment, as seen with this post last night after the last hot fix was sent out. I would hate to have it come back when we get 4.7 update.

moonwizard-discussion.JPG

Just trying to understand what happened.

Best,
Artrem

[LordEntrails]

Piecing together comments from John and Carl, there have been several things that have happened with this build and not all of them are resolved yet. This is not an official or probably accurate list, but it should be close.
1) A setting was disabled that converts large images to the maximize size that most GPUs can handle. Something like 16k x 16k pixels. This is the issue with large maps, they were not being reduced in size to what the GPUs could handle and therefore were causing crashes, lockup and inability to open these large images.
2) Memory leaks. It seems like several of these have been detected. John has says that he has found another one in the last 12 hours and is working to resolve it.
3) Misc other issues with the size of selection nodes and pointers and things that seem to indicate significant changes with the graphics engine.
4) A couple other misc things that seem to already be resolved.

[Artrem]

Thank you for the synopsis @LordEntrails. As I said in the beginning I may not be a programmer, but this is a nice synopsis of what is currently ongoing. It helps me tremendously understand where it is and where it is going.

My thoughts below:

I understand that a company must continue to advance and be innovative to stay viable. Smiteworks must do the same. Clearly the drive of this company and program is to make this '2.5D' system work for fantasy grounds. I can only pretend to understand the economics on deciding this is the direction to go vs. improving what personally drove many to fantasy grounds (great automation of systems, virtual environment to meet friends, 2d map improvements [lighting, los, animated maps, tokens], and not being web based platform).

I have been a faithful supporter of this program since before it was purchased by Doug Davison. (I don't post much and try to only post when it's important to me to do so or if I find issues with my games to try to help improve the program). That being said, I do show my support by purchasing many products from store and forge as well as talk up the program to anyone who is interested or talks about a competing program for VTT. I have done so for as long as I've used FG.

I also understand that I am only one opinion of an end user. But, that being said and I hope I am proven wrong, but in the visual aspect of this 2.5D look, is it really wanted by large percentage of your user-base? If WOTC's Project Sigil ever releases (again they've tried many VTT's in the past and failed on each one), if that 'video game' look is what users want, I would expect them to go to that platform as it will be much more refined and likely not return for a 2.5D look. Granted, they may not support other rule-sets, but we all know when it's been posted in the past by Doug, the vast majority of games here play D&D with PF following way behind in percentages.

Unless there is marked improvement, this 2.5D feature will only look as good as the 80's and 90's CRPG games I grew up on; "Descent into the Undermountain" is probably the best example (1998 MS-DOS/Windows from Interplay) that I am envisioning.

1749202-descent-to-undermountain-screenshot.jpg

Granted it won't be as pixelated, but essentially it is what I imagine it will look like from what I've seen so far. It may or not have animated actions (not even sure if that's planned). Unless there is something I am missing. I love retro, but is it worth making the great things about Fantasy Grounds less important or even not able to use due to the extreme demands onto the program already?

I love this program, I have poured thousands of hours into fantasy grounds, playing, building modules, trying to help troubleshoot things I find, and using multiple rule-sets in the process. I have had amazing adventures and still think it's the best VTT out there. But... if the drive is to only focus on this 2.5D and subsequently degrade the experiences with Fantasy Grounds that I've had for the past 15 years. It makes me wonder if there will come a time I will have to look for something better for my needs. I know someone will say, then go ahead a go. I get it, I'm one end user. But I can't imagine I'm alone in feeling this way.

These thoughts are from someone who really doesn't care about the 2.5D look and I don't believe anyone in my group uses it either (yep tried it a few times, seems like a novelty to me and have returned back to 2D), I really wish Smiteworks was more focused on making what defines this program better (improving rule-set automation, 2D map improvements, etc.). But still focusing on those microtransactions (dice, token packs, maps, etc) that keep the income flowing.

Carl and everyone else working on these visual changes, please do not take this as a knock on your work, it's not. I appreciate all of you doing the work you do. I understand that this is the direction that Smiteworks as decided to go. Its more about the direction of development that I have issue with... is all of this really worth the effort and frustrations when at the end of the day, it will likely be similar to the late nineties CRPG's?

Again from one end user only....
Artrem