Dragonlance - Shadow of the Dragon Queen

[mikemuck1]

From a DM's perspective (at least mine) its much easier to make new story entries/add to story entries to streamline the process and prep. Maybe I'm just not adjusting to the new way of doing it through the reference manual but I prefer to have the entries in the story functionality.

[Zacchaeus]

Have a look at video twenty six here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-do-I-in-Unity

You can add a new reference page by unlocking the index in the right hand side of the reference. See the video for how to add material to that new page. You can then move that page if you want. You can also edit existing entries by unlocking the page in the right hand side. See how you get on.

One other thing to note is that you can still add your own story entries; you aren't bound to creating new reference pages. You could then link those to reference pages if you wanted to. Also you can copy paste from a story into a new reference page and it will retain all of the formatting etc in your story.

[ddavison]

Some things you can do with a reference manual entry that you can't do with Story entries:

1. Organize into Chapters and Sub-Chapters
2. Re-order entries and chapters in ways other than alphabetically by title
3. Embed images that are able to be opened by clicking them
4. Assign a decorative frame around a text section
5. Re-organize Text sections
6. Navigate to the index, previous, and next pages within the outline
7. Show or hide the Table of Contents
8. Use 2-column text layout if you want
9. Use a picture in one column and text in the other column (reversible)

Both Story elements and Refence Manual entries recently added copy and paste of formatted text. You can also move content to new chapters or sub-chapters. You can also do this with Story groups, but the ref manual method is more intuitive. Other than that, you can do everything with reference manual pages that you can with story entries. You can link them to maps, link them to each other, pop out pages and/or put them on hotkey bars, etc.

Limitations with reference manual pages:

• You currently don't have a button on the side to view them. You have to access them through the Library screen for the module they are assigned to -- or with the Builder from that screen.
• There is a larger minimum height and width for story entries

[Valyar]

You can drag the reference manual to the hotbar and use the shortcut keys to open them. Very convenient.

[LordEntrails]

in addition to doing everything a story entry can do,...

Both Story elements and Refence Manual entries recently added copy and paste of formatted text. You can also move content to new chapters or sub-chapters. You can also do this with Story groups, but the ref manual method is more intuitive. Other than that, you can do everything with reference manual pages that you can with story entries. You can link them to maps, link them to each other, pop out pages and/or put them on hotkey bars, etc.

Limitations with reference manual pages:

• You currently don't have a button on the side to view them. You have to access them through the Library screen for the module they are assigned to -- or with the Builder from that screen.
• There is a larger minimum height and width for story entries

Sorry I haven't test/explored this, but I thought elsewhere someone posted a list of (to them, and to me) important things Ref manuals could not yet do. The ones I remember are/were:
- copy entire ref manual pages
- revert changes on single ref manual pages

And then one thing I know I do regularly with story pages and have no idea if it works with Ref Man pages; in a development campaign, copy and change a story (in this case, Ref Man page) and then export it. This way I can make changes to a module and export it to a module for use in my play campaign(s). Can I do this, or similar, with a Ref Man page?

[Zacchaeus]

You can copy reference manual pages either to another ref page or to a story (via copy paste). You can’t revert changes on a single ref page. As with anything you can’t export material in a module but you can export anything created in a campaign. Creating a new page in a ref manual should be exportable (I have not tested that so I could be wrong).

[Artrem]

Can you expand on this? Genuinely interested in feedback here since this is a new way of doing things but may not be set in stone. Story entries have been normal to this point because reference pages lacked some flexibility. However with the ability to now edit reference manual entries; add new images, add framed text in various ways; in addition to doing everything a story entry can do, reference pages are leaving story entries behind. So it seems reasonable to drop story entries and move over to reference pages.

As I say not set in stone; so your reasons as to why it is lazy and inconvenient would be valuable.

Zacchaeus, I understand the question wasn't to me specifically, but since you asked for feedback, I just wanted to give a few thoughts.

First off, after reading this post and going back to the module this change is interesting to me and with any change it will take some time to figure out and become more accustom to the change. That being said, when you've done the same thing for over a decade, change can be tough and scary. If the essential functionality is the same and/or better, then I am all for it.

This change did come as a surprise to me and was unexpected when I opened up the module. I try to keep up with the updates at fantasy grounds as it is my only VTT that I have used but sometimes a forum post may slip by or I may not see one of video's created. When I opened up the module I had the same thoughts, "Where are all the entries?" I also wondered if it was corrupted or something had happened. So, I went to the forums to look and see if anyone else had issues.

Since I have read a couple of forum posts about the change, in general the change looks great to me. I love that the pins are still put on maps that can still open up windows related to that pin, I love that there are layers that are GM only with labels on map/etc. I didn't think to look to see if they were GM only until I read this and 'unlocked' the image to see they were visible to GM only. It's really convenient to have it all on one map but players map only shows players basic map without labels and secret doors (great example is Sublevels of Flying Citadel map).

My suggestion would be some sort of communication to those grognards like myself that there was a change in module design as well as either as brief sentence in store that new updated method of module design, specific forum post about new change in townhall section about change in design of adventure modules and/or tips and tricks, or even a brief youtube video to show what was done differently in this module creation vs others (love FG short vids discussing changes, etc). Granted a search I could find this post, but this is a big change to those that have used 5E adventures from the FG store in the past. This may help decrease some of the surprise about the change that occurred. If this was already done, please help guide me there as I always learn something new about FG when I review those posts/videos.

As with any change, it's surprising, but most times it's for the better. Thanks for the time reading this and hopefully suggestions may help others not be as surprised as I was when I opened this module. If there was announcements or videos discussing these changes before this message, again please point me in the direction.

Thanks,
Artrem

[Zacchaeus]

Thanks for the feedback; it is much appreciated.

It did come as a surprise to me as well, although it had been talked about for some time. It's only really now that it has become possible to create an adventure in Fantasy Grounds using only the reference manual. Doug has this habit of doing things 'off piste' without telling anyone - just to see what the reaction is and so far the reaction has been positive - at least from the forum posts and comments on Discord that I've seen.

[LordEntrails]

My suggestion would be some sort of communication to those grognards like myself that there was a change in module design as well as either as brief sentence in store that new updated method of module design, specific forum post about new change in townhall section about change in design of adventure modules and/or tips and tricks, or even a brief youtube video to show what was done differently in this module creation vs others (love FG short vids discussing changes, etc). Granted a search I could find this post, but this is a big change to those that have used 5E adventures from the FG store in the past. This may help decrease some of the surprise about the change that occurred. If this was already done, please help guide me there as I always learn something new about FG when I review those posts/videos.

To this point, I think their should be a story entry, the first one, that explains this change. Lots of people don't come to the forums, don't watch the videos, and just expect things to keep working they way they have been for years. A quick story entry that tells users this would be the most effective, imo, way to communicate to the most number of users. i.e. for those of us used to the old way, we are going to look in stories first, having a story telling us the new way would be sure to educate us.

[esmdev]

To this point, I think their should be a story entry, the first one, that explains this change. Lots of people don't come to the forums, don't watch the videos, and just expect things to keep working they way they have been for years. A quick story entry that tells users this would be the most effective, imo, way to communicate to the most number of users. i.e. for those of us used to the old way, we are going to look in stories first, having a story telling us the new way would be sure to educate us.

I agree. A simple story entry that explains the move and perhaps provides some information about the new functionality and maybe a link that opens it up. There are so many search engine results that hit old classic information, the old YouTube tutorials often come up before newer, etc., that people are led to the story entries and not finding them can be disconcerting. The fact that some modules do have story entries and some don't also leads to confusion.

When testing and packaging new modules Smiteworks could easily add a prefab template single story entry to all the new releases that points to the reference manual and provides a simple explanation.