Special Announcement - Kickstarter

[Trenloe]

I would've thought a mid-range price between either would've sufficed. And I think any customer, like me, arguing over it is perfectly reasonable also. Especially if one were to consider the contribution they've made with other purchases, or more so, helping keep the community alive with their activities. For me, this is that sore point. I've been here a fair while now. Not as long as some, but long enough to be willing to put in endless hours to cater to players, free or otherwise, to give them games to play. If one were to factor that in, it's somewhat harder to swallow that they'd have to pay double what someone else with the exact same license will.

So, you joined the FG community, contributed to it in some way and had many hours of enjoyable gaming (because of Fantasy Grounds) and you expect something back for that beyond a 60% discount? Was that kind of expectation *ever* set? I assume you bought products because you needed them or just wanted to see them, you contributed to the community because you wanted to or felt that was a nice thing to do, you played many hours of gaming (facilitated by FG) because you enjoy the hobby and playing with other players. Why would doing all of that entitle you to some form of frequent flyer discount beyond the 60% discount you're already getting?

If you read back through the FGU threads, it's always been stated that any discount will be based off length of time of use of FG (when you bought your license) with the discount being more for new users, and the catch-phrase has always been "buy Fantasy Grounds for what it is now, not what it might be in the future". Quite frankly it staggers me that there are a number of people who have had many hours use out of Fantasy Grounds and feel entitled to a bigger discount or aggrieved that someone who's only bought it recently gets a bigger discount. I'm very happy that relative newcomers to Fantasy Grounds get an 80% discount (assuming an Ultimate license) to enable them to move to the new platform and keep exploring the wonders of Fantasy Grounds. I'm also incredibly pleased that SmiteWorks have extended a 60% discount to me as a "veteran" user - thanks SmiteWorks!

[seycyrus]

And I'm more than willing. I just wasn't aware of how different the prices would be. Though I think people should remember that without those loyal users, we might not be here today.

I don't get the entirety of this *loyal user* line of reasoning. It's not like you are some philanthropist who anonymously funded Doug's education, or bought SW their first batcave are you?

I use FG because its by far the best product out there! While there are CERTAINLY users out there who go out of their way to support FG in the form of extensions, rulesets and other material, I'm not one of them. I don't think you are either.

Where's my free cask of Belvenie for being a loyal customer all these years?

[Moon Wizard]

I think enough has been said on the topic; and we should move along to more interesting notes, like:

The KS is up to $120K, and Doug and I need to get working on more goals.

JPG

[Kelrugem]

I think enough has been said on the topic; and we should move along to more interesting notes, like:

The KS is up to $120K, and Doug and I need to get working on more goals.

JPG

Uuuh, congrats for that success of the KS

[UltimateGM]

I'd hate to beat the same horse but... what about those sexy Asset Packs!

[iotech]

Not to beat a dead horse (well, ok.. just a little)... I bought into FG back in Feb 2016 with an Ultimate sub. $10/month, kept it going since then (sure, I could have just bought the onetime license, but I'm lazy I guess). So, I've paid $380ish dollars for Ultimate, and I've spent $1100 on DLC since then. So, I'm in about $1500 right now.

And I'll keep my FGC sub going through at least December, AND I ponied up for the Newcomer Ultimate on the KS.
Why? Because this product has brought me and my friends joy and memories that are worth more than mere money to me. Also, I can afford to do this (some folks may not be able to).
Anyway, not once during this process did I feel like FG was trying to get more out of me than they deserve. Just the opposite in fact... the generosity of their business model is staggering.

Thanks Doug, Dave, Moon, Jen, and all the other Smities...
and thanks too to Trenloe, Lord Entrails, Zaccheus, DuluxOz, Rob2E, and countless others who work tirelessly to promote FG, help the users, and create content and extensions for us... without pay.

THAT is why FG is the dominant force in VTTs, and why *I* am happy to keep giving my time and money to this project.

[LordEntrails]

I think enough has been said on the topic; and we should move along to more interesting notes, like:

The KS is up to $120K, and Doug and I need to get working on more goals.

JPG

So yea, what are you doing for the next 6 stretch goals? Though I really like art assets, I'm not seeing much differentiation here at the moment. EDIT: maybe modern/future? etc

Maybe a different style or artist? Or perhaps more portraits? (which we don't know how many are in the initial offering anyway). Or what about other GM tools like... NPC personality generator? Or Tavern name and description generators?

Maybe... new dice skins? (If that is even a FGU possibility)

[UltimateGM]

Not to beat a dead horse (well, ok.. just a little)... I bought into FG back in Feb 2016 with an Ultimate sub. $10/month, kept it going since then (sure, I could have just bought the onetime license, but I'm lazy I guess). So, I've paid $380ish dollars for Ultimate, and I've spent $1100 on DLC since then. So, I'm in about $1500 right now.

And I'll keep my FGC sub going through at least December, AND I ponied up for the Newcomer Ultimate on the KS.
Why? Because this product has brought me and my friends joy and memories that are worth more than mere money to me. Also, I can afford to do this (some folks may not be able to).
Anyway, not once during this process did I feel like FG was trying to get more out of me than they deserve. Just the opposite in fact... the generosity of their business model is staggering.

Thanks Doug, Dave, Moon, Jen, and all the other Smities...
and thanks too to Trenloe, Lord Entrails, Zaccheus, DuluxOz, Rob2E, and countless others who work tirelessly to promote FG, help the users, and create content and extensions for us... without pay.

THAT is why FG is the dominant force in VTTs, and why *I* am happy to keep giving my time and money to this project.

I think your words were the best said out of everything! I wholeheartedly agree with you!

[Teknykk]

Well put. What other company puts out updates on a weekly basis? It's unheard of.

I can think of a few, so I won't place one company on a pedestal over it, and I don't think it really matters as far as my concerns were.

So you're getting Ultimate FGU for $60 instead of $150. Plus you've used it for however many years you've had FGC already. A $90 discount doesn't cut the mustard, eh?

As I said, depends on what else I factor in. In the end I doubt it would matter what I say, because it's pretty obvious some people are willing to defend against any opposing concern on the matter, and relentlessly in some cases.

So, you joined the FG community, contributed to it in some way and had many hours of enjoyable gaming (because of Fantasy Grounds) and you expect something back for that beyond a 60% discount? Was that kind of expectation *ever* set? I assume you bought products because you needed them or just wanted to see them, you contributed to the community because you wanted to or felt that was a nice thing to do, you played many hours of gaming (facilitated by FG) because you enjoy the hobby and playing with other players. Why would doing all of that entitle you to some form of frequent flyer discount beyond the 60% discount you're already getting? And if so, I'm guessing that your number of forum posts, the number of products you've bought and the number of games you've ran would be below a site wide average (based off three metrics to measure what you've mentioned), so you probably wouldn't get much in terms of a discount anyway!

If you read back through the FGU threads, it's always been stated that any discount will be based off length of time of use of FG (when you bought your license) with the discount being more for new users, and the catch-phrase has always been "buy Fantasy Grounds for what it is now, not what it might be in the future". Quite frankly it staggers me that there are a number of people who have had many hours use out of Fantasy Grounds and feel entitled to a bigger discount or aggrieved that someone who's only bought it recently gets a bigger discount. I'm very happy that relative newcomers to Fantasy Grounds get an 80% discount (assuming an Ultimate license) to enable them to move to the new platform and keep exploring the wonders of Fantasy Grounds. I'm also incredibly pleased that SmiteWorks have extended a 60% discount to me as a "veteran" user - thanks SmiteWorks!

I don't think it entitles me, or anyone for that matter, no. I never expected anything, but I have also catered to a number of players who'd paid nothing themselves. Some of those people would now be paid users. My point is, I don't believe anyone should've been entitled to a bigger discount than the rest. My concern was purely from the thought that I in fact did think everyone would pay the same, or very similar, based on their license type. As I said, I wasn't around if it had been clearly stated earlier. I've had my own health issues in the last year gone, including depression, to not really be able or willing to be active to read anything.

Now that Doug explained it, again for me in depth, I perfectly understand the reasoning, even though I do wonder if there could've been another way. But I'm no businessman.

I don't get the entirety of this *loyal user* line of reasoning. It's not like you are some philanthropist who anonymously funded Doug's education, or bought SW their first batcave are you?

I use FG because its by far the best product out there! While there are CERTAINLY users out there who go out of their way to support FG in the form of extensions, rulesets and other material, I'm not one of them. I don't think you are either.

Where's my free cask of Belvenie for being a loyal customer all these years?

I'm sure it is for you, and I've stuck with it because I don't like the approach of the others. And I have gone somewhat out of my way to contribute optional content. Most of, but not all of it, has been held back by copyright fears, so I've left it to personal and private use only.

But I've gotten a clear explanation, and I see no reason go further on it now. That said, I've never backed crowdfunding. My biggest fear is even if it gets the funding, it will fail to deliver in one way or another. It was always a risk in the past, and in recent years that risk has actually increased with campaigns gaining funding but never following through to the end. And you can't always expect you'll get your money back either.

The thing that interests me right now is the assets packs. I assume those will be sold later on their own, or are they exclusively intended to be for those who back it on Kickstarter? Most of all, are those stretch goals going to go to every license backer, regardless of what they contribute?

[ddavison]

We have some ideas for future packs but we thought we would have a little more time to pull them together fully. Those first asset packs were supposed to last a bit...