Let's talk about UX, baby.

[LordEntrails]

As I've said before, probably everytime this comes up, and has been touched on already, UI change is huge.

Example 1, the MS Office UI for 2003. MS spent lots of money on researching state of the art UI and all sorts of time developing prototypes. They came up with all sorts of things to improve the UI and implemented about 10% of them. (You know, tabs?) You remember how upset many vocal users were over that change? And, imo, I'm not sure they ever realized the improvements they expected.

Example 2, ProEngineer, a MCAD software (now called Creo Parametric). Starting in the late 90's they too started investing gobs of money and resources in replacing their UNIX based cascading right menus with icons and floating menus. Their first 2000 version started this process. 18 years later some of those cascading menus still exist.

So, IF Doug and John decide to change the UI in a significant way, expect such an effort to be on the scale of FGU in both time and resources. So give it another 5 years.

[shadzar]

Why do people focus only on the bit that the UI is not changing in any drastic way and ignore the reasons why?

Because the excuses given show that a new version of FG will not be trans-formative enough of an "upgrade" to facilitate paying for it again.

The Unity project might never arrive if a UI rebuild becomes part of the scope.

then that is a failing of an antiquated company unable to upgrade their product. people have made full working video games in Unity in less time than FGU has been in development with the same number of full time developers.

Lets take Playstation as an example. Dual Shock controller came out and a Playstation could use it or the non-vibrator controller. Those that wanted the upgraded user-interface were welcome to use it, and those that did not weren't required to use it. Same for N64.

FGU could easily offer that in that is loads FG3 content with an FG3 UI, and FG4 content with a new FG4 UI.

this would give FG3 content the added bonus of the 2 features of FGU: no more port forwarding, and LOS lighting; while giving people wanting a new UI use the new content.

If all the content is to be "bass-ackwards compatible" then it would be just as easy as one f those content settings in the XML telling which UI to use. or even in the environment itself the user can choose which UI to use.

The old clunky, visually impaired unfriendly FG3 with forced fonts and themes from the GMs machine.... or a new visually impaired friendly FG4 UI, that lets the end-user choose the font size, font colors, theme, etc on their OWN COMPUTER.

The only thing people are being told is "The UI wont change", not "FGU will begin with the old UI, and as it gets upgraded after release there will be a new UI designed to upgrade it for new content with a choice between them".

reasons? "Give us more money for the EXACT same thing, but we fixed one problem from the old launcher by rewriting it in Unity instead."

Where is the developers road-map to dissuade people's fears about paying for the same thing all over again with no extra benefits or quality of life upgrades?

[LordEntrails]

Because the excuses given show *blah blah blah* again with no extra benefits or quality of life upgrades?

We've heard all this before.
And as a code monkey you should know that making something new from scratch is orders of magnitude easier than migrating an application to a new engine with the requirements that all previous content be usable in the new platform. And, as a code monkey you should know that all these things you claim are "easy" often are very resource intensive when one actually gets done to providing them in stable product version and not proof of concept or beta quality pos that most of this quickly developed Unity apps that you refer to are.

BUT, I'm done. Not really interested in discussing this once again.

[damned]

jen-ui.jpg

[Bidmaron]

If we are going to discuss this the day after the last discussion completed can we at least use the same thread? How many times must we go over the same thing with no new views or opinions?

[Myrdin Potter]

My 2c on this is that I had the same initial reaction, and several people that came over had the same reaction, but once they used the program for a while they realized that the UI works well for a VTT.

I am not convinced that the radial dial menus are the best, but trying to cram and organize into the standard MS menus on top actually makes the UI worse.

I am much more interested in better network management and better map controls and, for me much higher in priority, better tools to enter content.

And, of course, not wasting all the content I have already bought.

[Ken L]

I use a docked UI. Currently fandangling to create a FIT principle by using each screen edge, suffice to say at the /very least/ there are dev tools to change the interface oneself where as on other platforms you have to deal with it. It does require technical knowledge though.

You can use sticky windows extension to create a pseudo docked UI in combination with the window-saver-x extension.

[iotech]

I use a docked UI. Currently fandangling to create a FIT principle by using each screen edge, suffice to say at the /very least/ there are dev tools to change the interface oneself where as on other platforms you have to deal with it. It does require technical knowledge though.

You can use sticky windows extension to create a pseudo docked UI in combination with the window-saver-x extension.

This is very interesting, Ken. Could you share some screenshots of what you're referring to?

[CrawlingChaox]

As others have stated (here as well as elsewhere), a UI overhaul is probably way beyond SW’s resources. That doesn’t mean it’s not long overdue, but in all fairness I’m waiting the Unity version for different reasons: connectivity and (especially) memory management are the ones that I can think of right now. The extra features like Line of Sight will be cherry on top of that, to me.

Even then, I’m sure the powers-that-be at SW are fully aware that the UI issue is not about retaining customers: it’s about expanding the reach of their product. Here on the forums you’ll find vocal supporters of the current UI, people who’ve gotten used to it and like it the way it is, but the unfortunate truth is that a UI is not merely a matter of preference. There are objective criteria in UI design that have to do with it being readable and immediate, and the software as it is now is... byzantine, on that side.

Sure, Fantasy Grounds has the best community around. People in here are extremely helpful and kind, and can help users with any questions. But to be frank, having a thing such as the Fantasy Grounds College is not a perk: it’s a fix to a huge issue. A leisure software shouldn’t need a sub-community devoted to explaining to new users how the software works. Fantasy Grounds ain’t no Photoshop, is what I’m saying. And yes, you can tell people to read the 100-pages long documentation, but that’s just not going to work in the bigger market. It’s really no surprise that a big part of the FG community is made up of programmers and people with a STEM background: the software works best if you’re used to a certain approach to software. People in general don’t want to be told to RTFM, however.

FG has a reputation for being the best tabletop there is, if you’re willing to get past the learning curve. The UI plays a huge part in that reputation, and having a steep learning curve is not a good thing. SW isn’t ready to give us improvements on that side, and quite honestly, chances are long-time users don’t really need those improvements anyways. But they’re definitely going to have to face the issue if they want to reach more customers. Since I like them and I want them to succeed, I hope they’ll deliver on that front in due time.

[LordEntrails]

This is very interesting, Ken. Could you share some screenshots of what you're referring to?

You can see some of what Ken has done in his Advanced Kombat extensions. He has one for PF and one for 5E.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...t-(Pathfinder)

I also get the feeling that he has done some other customization for his own use