5E - Aura Effects

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Originally Posted by bmos

Ah, you're misunderstanding SoxMax's example.
See the "morale" part means that the bonus is a "morale bonus" to will saves. This means other morale bonuses to will saves will not stack. However a "sacred bonus" or other types will stack with it.
So two paladins with "AURA 10 friend; Aura of Courage; SAVE: 5 morale,will" will not have their auras stack.

But one paladin with that aura and a cleric with "AURA 10 friend; Bard aura; SAVE: 5 sacred,will" will have their auras stack on a third person.

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I think I see. But in 5e then, can I put a descriptor to negate this double effect? Or rather, to consider the largest one? So... if in the area of two auras:
1 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 3)
2 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 2)
It would only consider FROMAURA 1, and not 2 (since 1 is greater than 2) even if both are in range? (Similar thing is the Paladin gains benefit from his own aura, but is acumulating with the other Paladin's also. So if Paladin 2 is in range of aura 1 it gains the 3 benefit. If not, it only has its own 2 benefit)

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Originally Posted by fesegato

I think I see. But in 5e then, can I put a descriptor to negate this double effect? Or rather, to consider the largest one? So... if in the area of two auras:
1 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 3)
2 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 2)
It would only consider FROMAURA 1, and not 2 (since 1 is greater than 2) even if both are in range? (Similar thing is the Paladin gains benefit from his own aura, but is acumulating with the other Paladin's also. So if Paladin 2 is in range of aura 1 it gains the 3 benefit. If not, it only has its own 2 benefit)

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No, that's not implemented in 5E (as far as I know).
Probably an option could be added that avoids stacking identical effects (from different sources).

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Originally Posted by fesegato

I think I see. But in 5e then, can I put a descriptor to negate this double effect? Or rather, to consider the largest one? So... if in the area of two auras:
1 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 3)
2 - AURA: 10 friend; Aura of Protection; SAVE [CHA] (where CHA is 2)
It would only consider FROMAURA 1, and not 2 (since 1 is greater than 2) even if both are in range? (Similar thing is the Paladin gains benefit from his own aura, but is acumulating with the other Paladin's also. So if Paladin 2 is in range of aura 1 it gains the 3 benefit. If not, it only has its own 2 benefit)

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Hrm I hadn't realized that 5e has no types to its bonuses, everything is just a bonus and the only restriction is two of the same bonus can't affect you.
This seems sorta like a larger problem with the overall 5e implementation of effects that there's no way to detect duplicates. I'll check if we're bypassing some duplication check that occurs in 5e's effects manager. But this may be the case for a new extension that handles duplicate effects in 5e properly.

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Originally Posted by SoxMax

Hrm I hadn't realized that 5e has no types to its bonuses, everything is just a bonus and the only restriction is two of the same bonus can't affect you.
This seems sorta like a larger problem with the overall 5e implementation of effects that there's no way to detect duplicates. I'll check if we're bypassing some duplication check that occurs in 5e's effects manager. But this may be the case for a new extension that handles duplicate effects in 5e properly.

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I dont know much about programing, but couldn't the name of the aura help with this? A check to see which same name aura (which would be a double effect) are in range and just let one (highest) be active?

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Originally Posted by SoxMax

Hrm I hadn't realized that 5e has no types to its bonuses, everything is just a bonus and the only restriction is two of the same bonus can't affect you.
This seems sorta like a larger problem with the overall 5e implementation of effects that there's no way to detect duplicates. I'll check if we're bypassing some duplication check that occurs in 5e's effects manager. But this may be the case for a new extension that handles duplicate effects in 5e properly.

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CoreRPG has a check so that duplicate effects don't happen. 5E overrides that and disables the duplicate check. I think this case can get a bit tricky with the pattern matching to ensure both auras are the same but one is better. I'd probably apply both, and run checks for duplicate and disable the worse one.

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Originally Posted by rhagelstrom

CoreRPG has a check so that duplicate effects don't happen. 5E overrides that and disables the duplicate check. I think this case can get a bit tricky with the pattern matching to ensure both auras are the same but one is better. I'd probably apply both, and run checks for duplicate and disable the worse one.

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The duplicate check of CoreRPG probably won't help always because it looks at the global effect string and applies the second version of the effect if there is just one difference like a different bonus due to a different CHA mod :) (therefore also CoreRPG and other rulesets may fail here, which is why the bonus type system of 3.5e/PF1 is then useful and needed in such cases)
So, one may need to check for the same name of the effect as you say, but the problem is that this may require that all effects have a certain style causing problems if one does not follow a certain style (like that it always starts with a string stating the source's name like Aura of Protection and so on :) )

Or one adds an auxiliary bonus type(s) for such things, just for clarifying to FG's 5e code that duplicates may needed to be checked :) Then there is no problem in how one states the name in the effect string; but users may get confused about using bonus types if they usually do not have such a thing in 5e

Got lost... is there a way to get around this? Or would the extension need something added to it for it?

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Originally Posted by fesegato

Got lost... is there a way to get around this? Or would the extension need something added to it for it?

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Sorry, I looked into it and we're not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell in 5e applying effects. At the moment I don't think there's a way around this problem.

Also ultimately I'm not sure if effect deduplication from different sources is something this aura extension should be responsible for. Having a separate extension that handles duplicate effects from different sources in 5e would be the best way to go as I think its a pretty heavy change to the effect calculation code to do that.

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Originally Posted by SoxMax

Sorry, I looked into it and we're not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell in 5e applying effects. At the moment I don't think there's a way around this problem.

Also ultimately I'm not sure if effect deduplication from different sources is something this aura extension should be responsible for. Having a separate extension that handles duplicate effects from different sources in 5e would be the best way to go as I think its a pretty heavy change to the effect calculation code to do that.

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I see. I'll try to figure something out, or just control this manually. Works great the extension, except when two paladins are in the group, so its preaty unique thing.
Thanks