Just got a mail from DMsG telling me they are pulling all extensions for sale out

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Originally Posted by Jiminimonka

Tell them that the Combat Groups Extension only works for 5E.

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You're late. The ground has already shifted under my feet yet again.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

I am coming to the conclusion that nobody knows what they are talking about. Skipping the mails I've been receiving I'll simply give my last response as it applies to FG/DMsG/WOTC.



Anyone. Anyone at all, that tries to explain to me that people are telling me things with clear clarity is simply not seeing what I'm seeing.

I've been given contradictory information by all parties.

But I suppose only I have that opinion.

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It is too soon for there to be real clarity at this time.
It might take some time.

I edited my post... and its the whole planet moving, all the time, at an immense velocity around the sun.

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Originally Posted by damned

It is too soon for there to be real clarity at this time.
It might take some time.

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Then I wish the powers that be in FG/DMsG/WOTC would actually just say that. We don't know yet, we are all talking it over.

Instead I get "WOTC says not to .ext", "FG says new portal in the works", "WOTC says not all .ext", "Some of your .ext are good", "none of your .ext are good", "No .ext is good", "Move to DriveThruRPG", "You can't move to DriveThruRPG"...

If I went by all the stuff that is said it could be distilled down to one simple phrase.

You're screwed. Deal with it.

Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

I am coming to the conclusion that nobody knows what they are talking about. Skipping the mails I've been receiving I'll simply give my last response as it applies to FG/DMsG/WOTC.



Anyone. Anyone at all, that tries to explain to me that people are telling me things with clear clarity is simply not seeing what I'm seeing.

I've been given contradictory information by all parties.

But I suppose only I have that opinion.

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We can only speculate in many aspects at that point :) (sorry, when I made it not clear somewhere that I was just speculating; basically everything was speculation from me besides that one posted link to an answer of SmiteWorks about DriveThroughRPG :) )

DMsG latest...

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If Fantasy Grounds is telling you that you can't move your title because of our exclusivity agreement we are waiving that in this case.

Your title may use the 5e rule set, but that does not make it strictly game content of Dungeons & Dragons. There are many 5E-related titles on DriveThruRPG that are specifically designed for 5E but that still aren't allowed on DMsGuild.

I apologize for the confusion, we were still working on clarification of what is and isn't allowed.

Extension files are allowed on DMsGuild, but only if they are very specifically supplemental to a D&D adventure module or resource.

So as we've stated, we are happy to help move your titles to DriveThruRPG if you would like.

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My response...

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That actually made sense. I’ll pass this on - hopefully you guys actually talk to FG soon so I don’t move and find out it was something else that prevents it.
Thank you for putting up with all this I know you were caught in between. Nice when nobody goes crazy in this sort of situation.

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So now of course, back in FG's court. I feel like a ping pong ball.

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Originally Posted by Kelrugem

I think they are in the process of figuring out what is correct in the moment, too; but, when I understood correctly, a shift to DriveThrough is not simply allowed, see https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...ing-Read-First! :) (also the posts afterwards, one needs a separate agreement).

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yes, even patreon and such (where you are just taking donations for your work and giving away the extensions regardless of donation) is not allowed (i asked in that same thread).

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Originally Posted by bmos

yes, even patreon and such (where you are just taking donations for your work and giving away the extensions regardless of donation) is not allowed (i asked in that same thread).

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Well hopefully someone in FG is reading these mails I'm posting because while I have no issues in moving - I have no intention of doing so until all parties agree - yes you can.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

Well hopefully someone in FG is reading these mails I'm posting because while I have no issues in moving - I have no intention of doing so until all parties agree - yes you can.

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There are 3 companies and dozens of individuals involved.
I would be surprised if this is resolved in less than a week and not at all surprised if its not resolved within a month.

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Originally Posted by damned

There are 3 companies and dozens of individuals involved.
I would be surprised if this is resolved in less than a week and not at all surprised if its not resolved within a month.

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That statement would make more sense if I was not told to move to DriveThruRPG - let us help you. Then told no you can't. Now yes, maybe you can?

See, had I been a wide eyed innocent, or an incoherent angry nut job, I could have already been shifted someplace else (DTRPG) and immediately dumped to the curb.

For all I know - someone else was made this offer and jumped only to find out to their lament that "too bad we were wrong".

So really, I think someone can clarify if DTRPG is valid place for these extensions. Because being told "Don't GO!" and "GO!" at same time is NOT sitting around taking time to make a decision. That's actively directing me to do things.

from One Bookshelf's prespective, its easy to move to DTRPG as they own/manage both products, but they are not taking Smiteworks licensing requirements into consideration for those statements.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

Well hopefully someone in FG is reading these mails I'm posting because while I have no issues in moving - I have no intention of doing so until all parties agree - yes you can.

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It doesn't get any more official than ddavison saying it's not allowed.

On the internet you will rarely if ever get total consensus, so it's important to consider the source of your information.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

That statement would make more sense if I was not told to move to DriveThruRPG - let us help you. Then told no you can't. Now yes, maybe you can?

See, had I been a wide eyed innocent, or an incoherent angry nut job, I could have already been shifted someplace else (DTRPG) and immediately dumped to the curb.

For all I know - someone else was made this offer and jumped only to find out to their lament that "too bad we were wrong".

So really, I think someone can clarify if DTRPG is valid place for these extensions. Because being told "Don't GO!" and "GO!" at same time is NOT sitting around taking time to make a decision. That's actively directing me to do things.

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DrivethruRPG are not involved with or concerned with any licensing requirements that your products might have with Fantasy Grounds.
The person you are dealing with might not even know what Fantasy Grounds is.
As far as they are concerned - you as a publisher can publish RPG material under the DMsGuild license - if it qualifies - or on the DrivethruRPG platform - if it qualifies.
its like if you included artwork in your adventure module that you didnt have the appropriate license for - DTRPG dont have a system for validating that you have a commercial license for that artwork - thats your responsibility.
Doug has said - if you want to sell products that are designed for FG/FGU then you need a licensing agreement.

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Originally Posted by damned

DrivethruRPG are not involved with or concerned with any licensing requirements that your products might have with Fantasy Grounds.
The person you are dealing with might not even know what Fantasy Grounds is.
As far as they are concerned - you as a publisher can publish RPG material under the DMsGuild license - if it qualifies - or on the DrivethruRPG platform - if it qualifies.
its like if you included artwork in your adventure module that you didnt have the appropriate license for - DTRPG dont have a system for validating that you have a commercial license for that artwork - thats your responsibility.
Doug has said - if you want to sell products that are designed for FG/FGU then you need a licensing agreement.

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So as you seem to be taking the "I know approach" let me ask you for some clarity. I was told if you had a publishing agreement this was all good. I was told that if you had a license agreement it was all good.

I was told that some parties do have this and can publish to DriveThuRPG.

Now, again I'm getting clarity from people reading other peoples responses and documents and not getting any direct input from those who understand it all. So again. I feel - and I could be wrong - that I'm once again getting misinformation based on partial understandings of the situation. I mean I can be wrong for sure.

If nothing else, I've proven I don't know squat.

As I said multiple times in this thread already. If I go - it will be Grim Press doing the going.

Anything you publish has to be wholly owned by you and/or adhere to any copyright restrictions or licensing requirements that would otherwise apply.

The response from DTRPG is incorrect. Anything published for Fantasy Grounds requires that you comply with our requirements to do so in addition to whatever requirements DTRPG has. That requires either a Publisher Agreement between you and us or it can fit into DMs Guild as part of that separate agreement between us, OBS and WOTC. DriveThruRPG is not in that list. If you had a Publisher Agreement with us, that could allow publishing to DTRPG and it would establish what percentage would need to be sent to Smiteworks, how frequently and how sales would need to be reported. We only allow this for a very small number of publishers.

We have no plans to spin up a bunch of new Publisher Agreements at this time.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

Anything you publish has to be wholly owned by you and/or adhere to any copyright restrictions or licensing requirements that would otherwise apply.

The response from DTRPG is incorrect. Anything published for Fantasy Grounds requires that you comply with our requirements to do so in addition to whatever requirements DTRPG has. That requires either a Publisher Agreement between you and us or it can fit into DMs Guild as part of that separate agreement between us, OBS and WOTC. DriveThruRPG is not in that list. If you had a Publisher Agreement with us, that could allow publishing to DTRPG and it would establish what percentage would need to be sent to Smiteworks, how frequently and how sales would need to be reported. We only allow this for a very small number of publishers.

We have no plans to spin up a bunch of new Publisher Agreements at this time.

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I know you probably missed the context of most of this - but this is a yes or no question.

Do you have a publisher agreement with Grim Press.

Contextually - that has been the entire DTRPG conversation to date.

[This is the source of my frustration from being told different things constantly.]

Edit: ninja'd by Doug himself.

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

So as you seem to be taking the "I know approach" let me ask you for some clarity. I was told if you had a publishing agreement this was all good. I was told that if you had a license agreement it was all good.

I was told that some parties do have this and can publish to DriveThuRPG.

Now, again I'm getting clarity from people reading other peoples responses and documents and not getting any direct input from those who understand it all. So again. I feel - and I could be wrong - that I'm once again getting misinformation based on partial understandings of the situation. I mean I can be wrong for sure.

If nothing else, I've proven I don't know squat.

As I said multiple times in this thread already. If I go - it will be Grim Press doing the going.

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Patience Grasshopper :)

This is what you need to know from the person who matters, the President of SmiteWorks;

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Originally Posted by ddavison

...
As far as I know, the DMsGuild agreement is terminated and restrictions from that agreement are no longer in force. The bad part is that SmiteWorks as a general rule does not allow anyone to publish content for Fantasy Grounds without either A) a Publisher Agreement or B) DMsGuild agreement. Both of these remain for .mod style content, but .ext files are not typically something we offered in A and they are no longer supported in B. This is likely going to require another solution.

It's all a bit sudden and we haven't had a chance to fully react and plan for a suitable solution. ...

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When asked if extensions could be published elsewhere (like DriveThruRPG);

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Originally Posted by ddavison

Not without a Publisher Agreement in place between SmiteWorks and the author of the extension.
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We've diverted a resource over to the Forge project and will probably know more in a week about how long it will take to get that ready.

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I know you want a solution. But the decisions are not being made by the people you or I have access to at OBS or WotC. Emailing with OBS Support really is just muddying the waters for yourself, because they can not give you an informed decision until they are told what that decision is. And that will only happen when among others, Doug reaches agreements with OBS and WotC. Have faith that as soon as Doug reaches agreement or arrives at a solution and the decision can be made public, he will make it public on the forums here.

All of the splashing we do down here lets those folks know the issue is important, but it doesn't help them work through the issues they have to work through.

Don't forget, not only do you need to worry about any license agreement with OBS when you publish an extension (or whatever publisher you may use), you also need to comply with the Fantasy Grounds license. Specifically this part right here (emphasis mine);

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5. AUTHORIZED CONTENT DISTRIBUTION. You agree not to use the SOFTWARE in any way to create unauthorized content for distribution to other users. This includes any content which violates any copyrights of any persons or for which you own the copyright but you have not obtained a LICENSE AGREEMENT with SMITEWORKS for authorized content distribution. You may create and distribute content in a strictly non-commercial capacity without a LICENSE AGREEMENT as if it were authorized content as long as that content does not violate any copyrights of any person.

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https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...s_faq#faq_eula

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Originally Posted by LordEntrails

Patience Grasshopper :)

This is what you need to know from the person who matters, the President of SmiteWorks;



When asked if extensions could be published elsewhere (like DriveThruRPG);



I know you want a solution. But the decisions are not being made by the people you or I have access to at OBS or WotC. Emailing with OBS Support really is just muddying the waters for yourself, because they can not give you an informed decision until they are told what that decision is. And that will only happen when among others, Doug reaches agreements with OBS and WotC. Have faith that as soon as Doug reaches agreement or arrives at a solution and the decision can be made public, he will make it public on the forums here.

All of the splashing we do down here lets those folks know the issue is important, but it doesn't help them work through the issues they have to work through.

Don't forget, not only do you need to worry about any license agreement with OBS when you publish an extension (or whatever publisher you may use), you also need to comply with the Fantasy Grounds license. Specifically this part right here (emphasis mine);

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...s_faq#faq_eula

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If it turns out Grim Press has a publishing agreement and I've been fire hosed with misinformation from the get go - having mentioned even at the very beginning that they would be doing this for me if it happened - I will be...

Less than pleased.

But really - its the forums. I don't know what I was thinking that context could be preserved more than a few posts (sigh)

And who knows? As I said - so many people telling me different stories out of context - even I am no longer sure what I've been told and by whom.

*lol*
Yes, if Grim Press has an agreement and it allows them to publish for sub-contractors (or however you are classified with them), then I would think you would be fine. But that's something Grim Press should be dealing with. Isn't that why you let them publish your stuff? To avoid having to deal with this ?:)

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Originally Posted by SilentRuin

I know you probably missed the context of most of this - but this is a yes or no question.

Do you have a publisher agreement with Grim Press.

Contextually - that has been the entire DTRPG conversation to date.

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If you aren't the publisher, then you should let your publisher deal with where it is allowed to be published. It's not appropriate for us to discuss agreements we have with any publishers publicly and answering yes or no questions for someone who doesn't have access to the contract in its entirety is a recipe for further miscommunication. If you have a separate agreement with Grim Press, you should reach out to them to see if their agreement allows them to publish on DTRPG. As a general rule, only a few of our contracts allow for that and they explicitly state it if they do.

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Originally Posted by LordEntrails

*lol*
Yes, if Grim Press has an agreement and it allows them to publish for sub-contractors (or however you are classified with them), then I would think you would be fine. But that's something Grim Press should be dealing with. Isn't that why you let them publish your stuff? To avoid having to deal with this ?:)

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Let's avoid making assumptions on contracts. Every person who signed a Publisher Agreement with us has the entirety of the contract where everything is spelled out legally on what can be done.

*edit
I want to add that not every Publisher Agreement is exactly the same either. They are all very similar but they evolved over time and accounted for specifics that may have arisen based on back and forth discussions between the parties. Hence, people should only look at their own contract.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

Let's avoid making assumptions on contracts. Every person who signed a Publisher Agreement with us has the entirety of the contract where everything is spelled out legally on what can be done.

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Absolutely!

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Originally Posted by ddavison

If you aren't the publisher, then you should let your publisher deal with where it is allowed to be published. It's not appropriate for us to discuss agreements we have with any publishers publicly and answering yes or no questions for someone who doesn't have access to the contract in its entirety is a recipe for further miscommunication. If you have a separate agreement with Grim Press, you should reach out to them to see if their agreement allows them to publish on DTRPG. As a general rule, only a few of our contracts allow for that and they explicitly state it if they do.

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What I was doing till I was point blank told - move your stuff we'll help - which was the plan with Grim Press doing it for me. Then having people tell me point blank that I could not do it. Grim was not around to consult.

So that would have been nice had I not been actively pulled in two directions at once. I suppose I could have remained quiet and waited while I was told to do two contradictory things - but hey. I like clarity. Even if its "I don't know yet". But the statements were pretty much not that.

I'll wait till grim gets back and definitely let him handle it from now on. As I said at the VERY beginning of this thread until I started receiving so many contradictory pieces of information.

That's the best plan. I'm locking this thread to prevent further miscommunication.