GURPS 4E Core Ruleset

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Originally Posted by xd134yd

Thanks, would it be possible to play in one of your games so I could try it out?

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Unfortunately, we are at capacity with our current campaigns. However, we do run one shot adventures from time to time in which we invite people to join. We will have another one of these one shots in a few weeks or so.

Any plans to add these improvements and what is listed in the Idea Informer? The improvements I refer to are these:

Upcoming Features|Wishlist:

1. Add GURPS Character and Racial templates
   
2. Mini Sheets
   
3. Allow the adding of vehicles|mounts to the Combat Tracker
   
4. Hit Points by location (torso, arms, legs, shield, etc)
   
5. Heath status and effects to show in token mouseover (tooltip)

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Originally Posted by yako2020

Any plans to add these improvements and what is listed in the Idea Informer? The improvements I refer to are these:

Upcoming Features|Wishlist:

1. Add GURPS Character and Racial templates
   
2. Mini Sheets
   
3. Allow the adding of vehicles|mounts to the Combat Tracker
   
4. Hit Points by location (torso, arms, legs, shield, etc)
   
5. Heath status and effects to show in token mouseover (tooltip)

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They will all be implemented at some point, however, I can't give a definitive date on when that will happen. I, and those who have offered to help, we work on the ruleset when time and motivation permits, so it's impossible to say when these things will be ready.

A GURPS specific party sheet, some combat tracker improvements, skill list improvements, and FGU fixes will be out before those wishlist items...at least that much I can confirm.

I understand you and I know that you do it as you have time and motivation and that you now have one more concern that is adjusting for FGU, and I was already happy to know that the project has not died and that we will have new implementations and I apologize for my charges but I am anxious for the improvements and I am grateful for always being helpful and answering my questions.

No insult intended here, because it looks pretty good and I know you've put in years of hard work. However...

This is basically unusable. The big problem is that most of the rules in GURPS are unbelievably complicated, especially for someone just starting out. If there is any hope of running a 1 hour session without 5 hours of page flipping and rule searching, the rules have to be on screen.

You can do this in Roll20, but I don't see any real way to do it here.

One of the primary problems seems to me to be that you have weapons instead of attacks. Many attacks don't involve weapons or damage. But they may involve multiple layers.

For example, the Martial Arts Arm lock rules with Pressure Points. The attack isn't a single attack roll but a Parry, an Attack, and a few Quick Contests. Most of the grappling rules are similar often with no damage but rather an effect applied. Roll 20 makes this possible because you can setup a parry including page number reference and text to add into the roll where you can include the rules. Then the attack can link to a technique that links to a skill for the attack role with all modifiers applied at each level. And you can also setup the quick contests as an attack as well.

My main point is that you can have an attack with several layers of rules and have the text of the rules show up right there in the chat window when you make your roll. (Would have been nice if you could toggle that on and off since if you get to know the rule you probably don't need to see it.) Considering there are thousands of techniques with unique rules combining with hundreds of weapons and such, GURPS is almost unplayable without something like this for new players. I think I'm going to have to use Roll20 until something like this is implemented.

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Originally Posted by VonKyrin

No insult intended here, because it looks pretty good and I know you've put in years of hard work. However...

This is basically unusable. The big problem is that most of the rules in GURPS are unbelievably complicated, especially for someone just starting out. If there is any hope of running a 1 hour session without 5 hours of page flipping and rule searching, the rules have to be on screen.

You can do this in Roll20, but I don't see any real way to do it here.

One of the primary problems seems to me to be that you have weapons instead of attacks. Many attacks don't involve weapons or damage. But they may involve multiple layers.

For example, the Martial Arts Arm lock rules with Pressure Points. The attack isn't a single attack roll but a Parry, an Attack, and a few Quick Contests. Most of the grappling rules are similar often with no damage but rather an effect applied. Roll 20 makes this possible because you can setup a parry including page number reference and text to add into the roll where you can include the rules. Then the attack can link to a technique that links to a skill for the attack role with all modifiers applied at each level. And you can also setup the quick contests as an attack as well.

My main point is that you can have an attack with several layers of rules and have the text of the rules show up right there in the chat window when you make your roll. (Would have been nice if you could toggle that on and off since if you get to know the rule you probably don't need to see it.) Considering there are thousands of techniques with unique rules combining with hundreds of weapons and such, GURPS is almost unplayable without something like this for new players. I think I'm going to have to use Roll20 until something like this is implemented.

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Unfortunately, as there is no official support for VTTs from SJG. It is not permitted to build in rules text and such into the ruleset, as that's breach of copyright. You can however add this information manually to your campaigns and set it up as additional information/notes within all of the skills, attacks, spells, abilities, traits, etc on the character sheet. This does not appear when you make a roll, but there is an icon you can click to easily access this information or link in chat for others to reference. There is also facility for any modifiers you need for all those things as well. Not all attacks in the combat tab of the character sheet need be weapons either. You can setup all your hand to hand attacks, range attacks (spells, guns, powers, or whatever) all with reference info, modifiers, modes of attack, parries, etc. Pretty much any roll you need to make in GURPS has a facility for it somewhere in the character sheet. There is a link in the OP which demos how to set all this stuff up. Not sure how current it is since that was done a while ago, but it does cover the basics.

I would be happy to help to get your feet with the FG GURPS ruleset, jump onto my groups discord (https://discord.gg/8dXSZkg) and we can try work out a time. Alternatively, all VTTs are just different tools for you to play your games, if Roll20 is working for you, then keep using that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :)

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Originally Posted by VonKyrin

This is basically unusable. The big problem is that most of the rules in GURPS are unbelievably complicated, especially for someone just starting out. If there is any hope of running a 1 hour session without 5 hours of page flipping and rule searching, the rules have to be on screen.

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My main point is that you can have an attack with several layers of rules and have the text of the rules show up right there in the chat window when you make your roll. (Would have been nice if you could toggle that on and off since if you get to know the rule you probably don't need to see it.) Considering there are thousands of techniques with unique rules combining with hundreds of weapons and such, GURPS is almost unplayable without something like this for new players. I think I'm going to have to use Roll20 until something like this is implemented.

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And yet thousands of sessions of GURPs are played on Fantasy Grounds.

You start with saying its unbelievably complex and the rules have to be onscreen and then finish saying you need to be able to turn this off when you learn the rules...

All RPGs are complex and require people to learn rules. If a player wants to use Martial Arts Arm Lock rules they should learn Martial Arts Arm Lock rules. They dont have to know the rules for using a Short Bow on Horseback.

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Originally Posted by VonKyrin

No insult intended here, because it looks pretty good and I know you've put in years of hard work. However...

This is basically unusable. The big problem is that most of the rules in GURPS are unbelievably complicated, especially for someone just starting out. If there is any hope of running a 1 hour session without 5 hours of page flipping and rule searching, the rules have to be on screen.

You can do this in Roll20, but I don't see any real way to do it here.

... GURPS is almost unplayable without something like this for new players. I think I'm going to have to use Roll20 until something like this is implemented.

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Ronnke hits the nail on the head: SJG doesn't endorse VTT, so until that happens we can do precisely what he outlines in his reply above.

My experience has been positive with the existing ruleset. All of my players are new to GURPS as a system. I've had to do a lot of work: inputting modifier values, and effects. In the end, it works. Do I wish it were fully automated? Absolutely.

We have been playing a home brewed campaign complete with using maps on a hex-based grid.

The worst that players comment on: so many modifiers to track and input. The work-around: build in mods on weapons and skills or just calculate them and drop the total in the mod box. The worst as a GM: the players not knowing the rules, but they are learning. And I've encouraged them to purchase the PDF rule sets from SJG.

The best: the players appreciate the fidelity of the game system as a whole and this has nothing to do with the mechanics of the VTT.

So it is totally useable. With new players, keep it simple: start with the basics, and build complexity once the players have mastered the basics. For instance, because my new players aren't comfortable with tactical movement rules at this time, we are just simplifying them for our use: step and attack is intuitive; as for change of facing costs, we don't use them.

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Originally Posted by Padre Moto

The worst that players comment on: so many modifiers to track and input.

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My experience with my players is that they complain about this with every system.

With Fate, we had modifier cards on the table and my players complained about sorting through them

With Cypher, they fussed about going up and down as they tacked on modifiers.

YMMV

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Originally Posted by VonKyrin

My main point is that you can have an attack with several layers of rules and have the text of the rules show up right there in the chat window when you make your roll. (Would have been nice if you could toggle that on and off since if you get to know the rule you probably don't need to see it.) Considering there are thousands of techniques with unique rules combining with hundreds of weapons and such, GURPS is almost unplayable without something like this for new players. I think I'm going to have to use Roll20 until something like this is implemented.

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I have to disagree. I actually just bought an unlimited FG license specifically to use the GURPS ruleset here, even though I've got a Pro Roll20 account. The inability to import character sheets, to me, makes Roll20 a no-go for GURPS. And I haven't touched GURPS since 3rd edition in high school, so sort of a new player in that regard, especially to 4E.

I've just spent twenty minutes adding spell descriptions to some DF pre-gens in GCS, which imported right into FGU.