You are a Rookie Ultimate License pledger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samarex
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You are a Rookie Ultimate License pledger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samarex
Any plans to add a license for groups which have multiple GMs? Now technically every GM would have to buy a separate Ultimate license, which is prohibitively costly.
A group of multiple GMs would be best served by everyone having a Standard license.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
Many have posted comments and questions related to what they want or what they can get cheaper. This is not about what each individual gets, it's about what the community gets in the long run and we can achieve this together. First, as someone who understands good development, there are stages in the process. You are not going to get everything you want immediately. That thought is childish. Second, the push to greatness is not immediate. Development is expensive and iterative. "Nothing in life is free". Last, the prices noted are more than fare. I was expecting to pay more than either of the tiers when SmiteWorks got to this stage. As such, I want to poste something a bit different.
A shout out to SmiteWorks!! They are a wonderful company. Unlike many big name companies today, they care about the community, are user focused, they participate, they give creds to those in the community who contribute, and they are extremely responsive to customer opinion and questions. It is obvious that Doug and crew care. The community itself shows the same characteristics. I think, not feel, that many larger companies with more resourses than those of SmiteWorks have forgotten this trait. It is one that Doug could teach them more about.
So, that being said, I have a question. Is there anything we can do during the kickstarter that will help you to meet the goals that you wish to meet? That could mean making a contribution above and beyond what you have asked, or if that means providing feedback during the testing phase, or if that means simply participating, please let those of us that care know. A person once said - "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for it". ROFL I am more than certain that many will stand up and help promote your company!! You all are great and we appreciate each and every one of you!!
Welcome to the forums Kyler. Always nice to have another user active in the community :)
FYI, its Doug, not Dave. But I think he pretty much answers to anything civil *g*
To all, Do we know at what time the KS will go live? And is their a url/page for it yet?
It is my hope that this becomes the VTT of choice without thought or hesitation! :)
I have even been known to answer to less than civil names. *shrug*Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
We plan to go live at noon EST on Wednesday, May 1st.
The link will be posted once we get the final one from Kickstarter. We are previewing it for a few folks currently to get final feedback prior to launch.
Kyler and I figured it out, it's because of your last name that people think Dave. We have now determined that you must blame your parents for all the ills you have ever suffered in life. for if they had named you Mike instead, no one would ever call you anything else...Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
Anyway, thanks for the info, and will be looking forward to checking it out once the link is published and for noon EDT? on the first! (Since I assume you are using daylight savings time adjustment?)
Hmm, hadn't thought of that. My group has 7 regular players. We have 1 Ultimate license, but we have two other people who would like to GM (so 3 GMs). Our options as far as I can tell:Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
Option all standard: 7 x FGU Standard = 7 x 35 = $245 ($35 per player)
Option mixed: 4 x FGU Standard + 2 x FGU Ultimate + 1 x FGU Ultimate upgrade from FGC Ultimate = $35 x 4 + $135 x 2 + $60 x 1 = $470 ($67 per player)
Still would like to have one group license as everyone buying their own makes adding new players a pain and a recruitment nightmare ("you need to buy this just to be able to play with us, you're stuck with it if it doesn't work out between us"). And for those who drop buy every few sessions it doesn't make sense, either.
What would be, in your opinion, a reasonable model for a "Group License"? And how would that be licensed and be "fair" to SmiteWorks while not turning into something abused?Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
Do note, their are several related items on the wishlist. I will also add, I don't think SW is opposed to this (such has been discussed on the forums before) but we have to keep in mind practical considerations as well as licensing agreements SW has with other companies that might impact this. i.e. a DLC product purchased by one person can already be simultaneously shared with all players, but are their other restrictions in those licensing agreements? Don't know.
I would not have someone in my group that was not willing to pay the money for like 4 trips to MckiD's for the software. Just sayin...
I've found that people with demo licenses tend to be a little unreliable for campaigns and I've replaced them for users with a standard license. I do like the demo license for one-shots/conventions though.
But my Big Mac!Quote:
Originally Posted by madman
You use the Demo? OK your out........
LOL
A subscription membership for standard is $4/month, or less than $50/year. Have someone new to your group do the subscription, which gets them a month free and try it out. 2 months for $4. If they like it, they can then buy it. What my whole group did years ago and anytime we have someone who wants to try it out with us does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
While there may be a place for group licenses, I am afraid it will be like subscriptions (after the kickstarter). And if they did it, I suspect it would be by subscription only and at least 3x the ultimate price (and I suspect you would find everyone would still need to buy their own copies of the books because of the license from the copyright holder, i.e. not something Smiteworks can control).
In your group, I would give two options: 1) Everyone get standard (this lets everyone get FGU as part of the kickstarter) or 2) Pass the hat to pay for the other 2 ultimate licenses (but you cannot switch to playing FGU until after the GA release since I don't think a demo license will be available until then).
The impression I have from comments here and on Fantasy Grounds Fridays is that FGU is close, the kickstarter is a way to let some of the current users (I hope all and then some) pay to upgrade at a discount and have early access so that we can be part of the final testing. This is software, someone always does something that the developers never event conceived of anyone trying. When this happens, as a developer, you hope you handled the unexpected, but that is not always the case. The goal of getting some of us to pay to be guinea pigs is to find as many of those issues as possible before the full release (in the software industry this is usually called General Acceptance or GA). Any one who does development knows that no product is bug free, the goal is to have as few bugs as possible when the product is released. If anyone else has been around long enough to remember the product, I will grant that Invisicalc was bug free (and ran equally well on all platforms).
Note to myself and other time zone losers : it will start at 18h (6pm), may the 1st, in France, most European countries and something like a third of Africa. Be ready guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
A license that covers up to X players with the same license key. Everyone using that license key could be a GM or a player, one GM at a time but that could be anyone holding that key. Should be very straightforward to implement, as that's how many corporate software licenses work so I imagine the tech is fairly robust. Probably requires FG to phone home, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
Pricing could be compared to FGU Standard $35 per player with a discount as otherwise it wouldn't make sense, so perhaps $25 or $30 per license. Or if that's too confusing, have group size tiers, e.g. up to six players for $180, up to ten for $275 and up to fifteen players $375, perhaps even bigger one for those who host online games with random groups. Just throwing numbers up in the air here.
Can't speculate about licenses with authors and publishers, as they're obviously not public knowledge and IANAL.
All our group members are irl friends, and not everyone is well off financially. A couple balked at the price of FG and the CoC stuff we bought. I tried to explain it would last us several years (it lasted four) and used similar arguments, but a one-time payment like that is hard to justify to someone who is struggling with their finances (I also offered them to pay me in instalments). They didn't play for two years because of that. Recently we finally got them back to play, and weeks later we'll be asking them for more money to cover FGU and Horror on the Orient Express, again a one-time payment.Quote:
Originally Posted by madman
Not everyone has money to forgo four mickey dee meals for a luxury that is RPGs. Real-life friendships are more important to me than financial grandstanding. Just sayin...
*I don't work for SW.*Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
See, that right there is the sort skullduggery that just smells off to me. That REAALLLY sounds like "head over to the gaming store", and get everyone and their aunt to get a *group* discount for how many, 30? 40? more ? players in their *group*
In reality, no ones group pushes much past 6 players. Pushing this pricing model SW would have to contend with (All of sudden!) a bunch of *groups of friends* of 20+.
SW is not a charity organization.
Did I mention that I don't work for SW?
I said I'm just throwing numbers up in the air. And I don't appreciate what you are implying about me and my group.Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus
I expect most RPG groups to be 4-10 people, so a group license in that range should cater to the vast majority of groups while avoiding edge cases like you describe. Besides, people who would go to such lengths to avoid paying would get a cracked copy anyway, so the lost revenue is probably close to zero.
Discounts for bulk licensing is not uncommon in the software industry.
001-010 $35
010-025 $33
026-100 $31
Etc...
It's not that much of a savings compared to what they could do with the ultimate license.
Still, I find a one time outlay of $35 to be an already low price to pay for a product that is in a state of perpetual free upgrade.
I'm sorry. I got you and your group confused with that *other* random internet person and group over there. The message was directed at them, not you and your noble group of paladins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
That being said, your original message mentioned very large numbers, and if you don't think that there are folks out there would try to abuse the system ...
I don't think it is a good business model to live in fear of the hackerz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
I want SW to continue to make their awesome product. I want them to sink their revenue into making it better for me and my group, not giving huge discounts to others.
So, let’s keep it friendly please.
Except wouldn't it be MORE functional than a Standard license? So then it should cost more, not less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
Second, the phone home part would be necessary, unless SW used something like FlexNet so each user or group could install their own license server. Licensing FlexNet or other license management software like that is expensive, and would easily increase the cost of each FGU user/group license by a few hundred dollars. So that woudn't work. (And FlexNet is one of those big license management software companies that all those business applications use to management concurrent licensing that you referred to.)Absolutely.Quote:
Not everyone has money to forgo four mickey dee meals for a luxury that is RPGs. Real-life friendships are more important to me than financial grandstanding. Just sayin...
And again, I think SW would be open to something that actually worked as a business model. But works for your use case may not work for them. Hence the points I asked originally. It has to be no more challenging, resource intensive or expensive to manage than their current system. It s needs to be just as secure. And it needs to be on par with the financial incentive (i.e. profitable) for them so they can make a fair wage and continue to grow and take the financial risks that they have and receive reasonable returns.
As for bulk or group licensing, Steam also has the 4 for the price of 3 deal. And unless SW were to build a new automated system for buying ana managing bulk licensings (i.e. a investment in capital) the break even point for bulk licenses is probably upwards of 10 or 12. (i.e. the over head with dealing with special cases actually makes them more expensive, not less).
But, we are pretty far OT and maybe should move this into a thread of its own.
Not as I understand it. With everyone having a Standard license anyone can be a GM AFAICT, exactly like with a group discount. Essentially the group license would be a discount on the Standard license. A bulk discount as someone else pointed out, which is very common. A way to encourage groups to migrate to or pick up FG.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
That sounds like a corporate solution, there's nothing cheaper for SMBs?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
I know the financial and profitability side well, I do that for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
Is a subscription model being looked at for FGU? Perhaps one that would count towards buying a Standard license? Say, $5 per month, and after 10 months you'd get a Standard license? That way people who just don't have or won't pay $35 could dip their toes in, and get a Standard license if they like the product enough and stick with it. Require enough months so you essentially get interest from these customers.
Subscriptions will be available for FGU v1, not beta version. Standard subscription is $4/ month and does not count towards a one time license (has been asked before)
I am very, very disappointed that multi-monitor support isn't going to be a thing. It's been top of the wishlist for a very long time, and screen space is one of the biggest annoyances in FG. Just the ability to put the map in another window would make a world of difference.
What's stopping this from happening?
Probably the small portion of users who have multi-monitor setups. Not sure if there are statistics (Steam hardware survey?), but I imagine it being in the single percentage digits.Quote:
Originally Posted by The High Druid
I find that very hard to believe. I'm in three games, I only know of one player that doesn't have access to at least 2 screens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnimost
There is no robust cross platform multi monitor support in Unity.Quote:
Originally Posted by The High Druid
There are multi monitor libraries available but they do not have the required cross platform support.
I use two screens on my computer when GMing and playing. But I only use one for FG. I have always only used one for FG.Quote:
Originally Posted by The High Druid
I usually have open Chat and Combat and the current Map as background.
Everything else I open, use, and then close.
I use the shortcut bar and pins on maps to keep anything important close by.
Im not saying multi-monitor support wouldnt be useful - Im just saying that even having access to 2 screens I personally dont use or need them for FG.
So... who's excited for Wednesday? Real anxious here! Trying to remember if Doug had said most pre-existing 5E modules were updated (new features)....or will be during and up to the December official release
Too early....need coffee:)
ikr =^^= I'm excited as well, I need hot coco ... sorry i don't drink coffee that often :P
And yet multiple monitor support was requested almost 6x more than native Mac/Linux support, not that the wishlist represents user demographics well. But . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by damned
Meah. Like I said; very, very disappointed.
Requesting it and being able to implement it are two very different things. As damned says there's no proper support for it in Unity.Quote:
Originally Posted by The High Druid
Is this something that an extension could handle? Targeted towards a specific platform?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchaeus
Multi monitor work very well if you drag FG window in order to cover both screens (of course you will need same definition on both, but if you do a lot of multi monitor I assume you do have that configuration). Then use Turbotop to keep other windows on top of FG, et voilą ! https://i.imgur.com/3adJfz3.jpg
Only if you continue to be worried about the cross-platform support (also according to damned) which was requested 6 times less. I guess there must be user data somewhere that support the current choice being the better one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchaeus
In this case that's a bad assumption. I have access to 4 screens, none of which are the same size, and only 2 are the same resolution. Window-strtching is messy in any combination. Not to mention laptop+TV seems to be a popular way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyhunt3r
I see...Quote:
Originally Posted by The High Druid
Just in case somebody want a good multi monitor solution for FG : if you can, use two monitors with preferably same size and resolution, and the little software Turbotop, you won't be disappointed. A look with 5e ruleset : https://i.imgur.com/DxC0F4n.jpg
Not really excited for Wednesday,. As far as I know there's no early bird level available. I'll probably look in on it on Wednesday, but I'll be playing when the Kickstarter opens. I am quite excited for July or August when we actually get the Beta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patou
Perhaps there will be some sort of early bird with the possibility to be part of the Alpha ?
This looks like quite nice application... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyhunt3r