Fantasy Grounds Unity engine

[damned]

Any story behind that?

I dont know if there is a story behind it. I backed Realmworks but have never tried it.
Some other users of both products have asked the question of Lone Wolf and been given a negative response.
I believe the general feeling was that LW felt that RW was a competitor to FG rather than a tool that it could work well with.
But I could (and likely am) wrong about that.

I know that SmiteWorks never discourage any of their content partners from working with competing tabletops and have encouraged other tabletops to seek out content partners.

[leozelig]

Creating a blank canvas with the drawing tools is pretty um.. limited? You'd at least need the map.

As much as I dislike Roll20's "Pro" model, for what is offered at the free level, you can drag in images, plop them on a map, hand draw a map with your wacom or mouse, and roll some dice. It's basically all you need for off the cuff running. The bitmap based model for drawing causes some loading issues for large maps as well as making the drawing tool appear gimped compared to vector based drawings/masks.

Definitely agree with you there. I expect that we will see map tiles in the store after the switch to FGU, which should help. I would be surprised if the drawing tools aren't enhanced as well since this is often criticized, and for good reason. Wacom compatibility would be very cool.

[damned]

Definitely agree with you there. I expect that we will see map tiles in the store after the switch to FGU, which should help. I would be surprised if the drawing tools aren't enhanced as well since this is often criticized, and for good reason. Wacom compatibility would be very cool.

They have definitely demo'd a tiling map builder.
Whether its in release 1.0 or not we dont know...


https://youtu.be/xJBXbxfTwB4

No mention of wacom or similar support that I recall.

[Bidmaron]

LWD is very arrogant about their product. A few years ago when I suggested they should add url-based commands so a VTT can drive the RW engine (kind of like a super campaign encyclopedia or on-demand campaign wiki that FG would drive), he wouldn't even consider it. RW was supposed to be the tool you drive everything else with! Now, if you don't like FG's map tools and ability to run an adventure from the map, you will probably hate RW even worse. They have always insisted that RW is not and never would be a VTT, yet they think you are going to run your adventure from what is essentially a super-powered wiki?

Crazy.

On another note, complaining about the learning curve of FG is like bitching that it is harder to learn to fly the space shuttle compared to your volkswagen. With great power comes complexity. Yes, if you are Apple and can put an army of human interface engineers to work on things you can reduce the learning curve, but, as great as SW is, they just can't muster that kind of horsepower (that said, some of the crappy icons are a little hard to rationalize - but I bet SW would gladly consider user-generated icons if someone comes up with a better one of the proper resolution).

[mattekure]

I want to chime in a little on this discussion. I am fairly new to FG, but a long time user of other products. My group and I switched to FG about a month ago, and it has been amazing.

Talking about prep time. I spent years using maptool/mote to prep my games. I'm a bit of an amateur programmer, so I spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours developing my own campaign framework, and creating monster tokens, etc. It eventually wore me out. I spent so much time on my prep process, that the game suffered. As a group we tried out Roll20 and it honestly wasnt much better. I had gotten so used to the amount of work I was doing for maptool that Roll20 initially seemed better, but after evaluating it, and its performance we realized it just wasnt worth it. A couple of months ago, I started looking into FG and it has made a world of difference. My VTT prep time for games went down by over 90%, mostly finding the right maps and dropping the encounters in the right place. And best of all, a comment that came up several times in our last session "This feels weird, everything is just working."

I do use Realmworks, but not as a VTT. It is an information organizer. It keeps me straight on everyone and everything happening in the campaign. I would never think of using it to try and run a game. Totally different products, I dont even see them competing, at least not for me.

[JohnD]

how does any VTT even FG save time in prep? The only way I can see this is by only playing published adventures. a VTT already adds 10% more work to a DM that creates their own content, and FG seems to add even 10% more to that because all the little bits and pieces it takes.

IS there something most streamers don't know about putting your own content into FG that makes it somehow easier than all the streamers elude to it being?

NPC Engineer, you still have to make the NPC twice, once when writing your game,a nd the second time putting it into NPCE, then you still need to put it into FG, but NPCE does reduce the time for that... Everything else, for any VTT it is still prepping the game twice unless it is a bought published adventure.

to what CrawlingChaox is saying.. if you want to get people to switch from roll20 to FG, you have to make it worth their while. To get people to switch form Classic to FGU you have to make it worth their while also. The fanatics will pay whatever, but the casual people that make up the majority of any market, those who buy something, buy more, hardly see it, but keep buying, are the ones you want. FGU needs to have an "impulse buy" component. "Dynamic lighting" as shown, moving water and annoying rain effects dont seem a good incentive to get FGU unless the system itself is more easy for people to put their own content in without the existing core problems of the unintuitive scripting language, and bloated memory hog that is XML. it is currently like making an adventure for the original BioWare NWN needing those levels of coding to make your own content, as opposed to a DM jsut able to sit down and write on a sheet of notebook paper to play an RPG F2F.

Ease of adding content would surely be an impusle buy.

I am confused why Classic won't make money? is FGU just killing Classic? no more support for Classic, no products, no further updates to fix errors or bugs? it is going to be Unity or nothing, and support for Classic is discontinued? Because that seems like it would make people convert FROM FG to other places. :confused:

Your posts exhibit a distinct lack of understanding of what FG does, and the power of using the functionality that does exist. Either that or you are resorting to hyperbole to try and make your point.

In the beginning, FG took more time while I was learning how to use it to my advantage. 80% of that learning curve was ground through in about 10 hours. The other 20% came organically over time, but in 2018 I can and do still use the first adventure I made way back in 2012, it just isn't as elegantly laid out.

If you put in some time to learn FG, you will benefit from it.

[ddavison]

I don't understand the double-entry or increased prep time comments since they don't really apply to me. FG saves me a ton of time compared to any alternative I can think of. I could see comments about single-entry not being as efficient as it could be if you were entering a bunch of unique monsters, but again, you only need to do that once and then you can reuse them over and over from then on or even export them to a mod. For people that don't want to buy DLC that is also available in PDF, there are people who have written parsers that allow you to copy and paste entire statblocks for several different systems. There could definitely be more of that sort of thing built in.

The other part is maps. With the current FG, you need to use an external program to build those but it doesn't add double the work since you simply drag in the image when you are done. Either way, the map features are greatly enhanced with FGU so that you can do more with maps with much greater capabilities and fewer restrictions.

We are always open to actionable suggestions though. It may take us time to implement those things, but they often get in the list. We definitely use tooltips to explain things, though, so read those. What does a standard UI screen look like for Short Rest or Long Rest? I'm sure there could be better icons, but the UI that is there with tooltips is consistent with the rest of the UI -- i.e. right-click to get a menu and tooltips to explain any icons. Icons allow for the ability to localize the tooltip whereas a button that said Short Rest would not.

[shadzar]

If you are doing prep why do you have to do it twice? If you are running your game in FG just prep it in FG.

Then how do you get it back out of FG for other uses? OR do you just blind create thin in FG and hope they are designed correctly? Never had an encounter that was jsut too hard? Quickly fudge by remving that enemy form the combat tracker i guess.

some people are just old-school and no matter what they use to play will still do their design work with good ole fashioned pencil and paper. face-to-face you only need that to play, but you have to add it all to ANY VTT you choose to use.

i feel no heat, and have been discussing in various places my disdain for every VTT that has ever been because they all fail to meet the basic needs of what a VTT should be in all forms (you can read about them in places i frequent other than here), and FGU has been talked up to me for over half a year, so i am walking beside the band-wagon and trying to see what makes it so special, after having played with FG for a few weeks to make several extensions, themes, and OBS widgets for it (classic).

I basically just walked into the car lot hating cars and preferring my horse and buggy, so make your best pitch to sell me on using cars of the FG make and model. ;) But i am going to be asking fully about previous owners, mileage, APR, check the wiper blades and kick the tires a few times each why you try to sell me.
(sits in his rocking chair like Granny Clampett.)

@Doug: I have no idea how to reduce the prep time as it is with any VTT for those that design old-school, then implement into tech after. But as people are saying "once you learn" that is a deterrent to many, when as was mentioned you could grab and go. i think there MIGHT be another way to speed it up, but haven't had enough time playing with it to figure it out, other than external editors like NPCE. The prominence of such programs means there, to me, is a problem with the method using direct FG to do it, if someone had to write a program to make it easier. that is what i am basing off, and wondering, what other points of data entry also suffer from this need for external programs?

[ddavison]

Then how do you get it back out of FG for other uses? OR do you just blind create thin in FG and hope they are designed correctly? Never had an encounter that was jsut too hard? Quickly fudge by remving that enemy form the combat tracker i guess.


There's nothing wrong to coming in skeptical about things. Most of our frequent users are big fans of the current FG model because they've seen it greatly increase their enjoyment or reduce their prep time compared with other options. FG has some fairly big problems with memory usage, images and networking. These are things that you can work around, but anyone who uses FG knows that they exist and that they scare off new users. FGU solves those problems. We will probably solve much of the memory problems with FG classic as well when we roll out the 64-bit version. Other than that, FGU is not a drastic departure from FGC for 90% of the functionality. If you like another system better than FGC for anything but those three major areas mentioned earlier, then you will probably still like those better than FGU when it comes out.

The big take-away is that our current fans are okay with our strengths and weaknesses. It's okay to point out things that you think we are weak in -- we probably already know them. In some cases, what one person thinks is important may not be something we think is important or at least not more important than other things we are working on. I use apple mobile products and there are plenty of things that I think are non-intuitive or stupid on my iPhone or iPad but overall I still prefer those to alternatives. Hopefully we will strike the best balance and deliver more cool and awesome features than we do dumb ones. :P

[seycyrus]

...
I basically just walked into the car lot hating cars and preferring my horse and buggy, so make your best pitch to sell me on using cars of the FG make and model. ;) But i am going to be asking fully about previous owners, mileage, APR, check the wiper blades and kick the tires a few times each why you try to sell me...

Well then, don't pretend that the manure, low speed and terrible ride (etc.) don't exist.

[damned]

We will probably solve much of the memory problems with FG classic as well when we roll out the 64-bit version

JPG made a casual reference to this in Discord today/yesterday? suggesting that FGCx64 might not be possible due to some of the older modules that are used in the current engine...

[Trenloe]

Then how do you get it back out of FG for other uses? OR do you just blind create thin in FG and hope they are designed correctly? ...

some people are just old-school and no matter what they use to play will still do their design work with good ole fashioned pencil and paper. face-to-face you only need that to play, but you have to add it all to ANY VTT you choose to use.
Well, yeah, if you're going to do things twice then it will always take longer, whether it's a VTT or any other application. Doing things twice will always take longer than doing it once.

I get it - you're used to doing things a certain way, and you're frustrated because that way takes longer when you do it twice with a VTT, or the tools you use don't allow auto importing of what you've done into FG. Which, by-the-way, would be nigh on impossible to cover all of the many, many RPG tools people use, all having different data formats. As an aside - SmiteWorks tried a few years ago to get the main RPG digital tools companies together to agree on common data formats, to allow data sharing to be much easier. Of course, they all couldn't agree on the format, so it went nowhere.

Like using any new set of tools - it takes time to get efficient with them and using them initially can seem to take much longer.


Never had an encounter that was jsut too hard? Quickly fudge by remving that enemy form the combat tracker i guess.
The mainstream rulesets where the RPG system itself has a means of encounter balance (Challenge Rating, etc.) have this built in - put the NPCs in and it will give the total CR for the encounter. The tool is helping you here to know, on the fly, if an encounter will be hard for the current party. This is just one example. Like people have said - learning to use the tool and all of it's features will mean you are doing less and less outside of FG.

It's a change in your process, absolutely. But the reason why people say it is less prep is because they, after using FG for a while, have changed their old prep process and know that it is much quicker to now prep for a game in FG - using FG as the main design and playing platform.

As an example - I used to run a lot of organized play events face-to-face. Each session was 4 hours and it took much more than 4 hours for me to prep maps, NPC stat sheets, handouts, etc.. Moving to running those games in FG (either face-to-face with a TV for the map/display, or over the Internet) that prep time dropped to less than 2 hours. This is why many people say that there is less prep time using FG.

And, the added bonus is that your game is "frozen in time" when you stop playing - all current mini (token) locations, init tracking, damage, effects, notes, fog-of-war, etc. are all stored for when you next play - whether it is next week or next year. This reduces prep time to just start the session going as well! :)

[Moon Wizard]

Here’s the gist of my FGC 64-bit comment on Discord:

“...While I've worked on it a bit, it will probably be an "experimental" optional release, while 32-bit will remain the primary release. We use several third party libraries that are 10+ years old. They may not handle 64-bit well, and are not tested for this use by original third party creators.”

Basically, since the third party libraries are not code I wrote or understand in detail, nor are they designed/tested to work in 64-bit builds; we won’t know for sure what the issues are until they happen. Also, it doesn’t make sense to spend a whole bunch of time on this that can be used to move FGU forward. Thus, I proposed “experimental build” as an option.

Regards,
JPG

[shadzar]

give the total CR

Here you are speaking greek to me, because i am waiting for Celestian to finish AD&D so i have a ruleset to use, i dont know what this CR mess is, or why it even exists. i am guessing you are just meaning the drones of d20 clones.

That design for VTT first isnt something i could ever do. i have too many ideas during a day, and a computer isnt always handy to write or code them into.... well i am near a computer most of the day, but i cant just have a VTT on everyone to add stuff to. got to be old-school. I know and meet more and more people like that daily, and am offering that as a point of something.. maybe something that is impossible to fix with ANY VTT, but the one with the easiest method of data entry will have the attention of those P&P preppers.

but as i said, i have taken Doug's 3 major points with FGU and am going through and kicking the tires good now with Classic. I will sit on the fence, and keep watching FGU and watching Celstian's AD&D ruleset to see if FG will fulfill any of my needs in either form.

[Ckorik]

Prep time seems about the same for me - but I use map tools for projecting maps - which is quicker than hand drawing them. Hero Lab is easier to build an NPC with - and with the creature import mod I can make a custom creature and import it in a few minutes.

Honestly I'm learning how to use it because it's the future of my playtime. I'll always make time for real world games - but real world games aren't always a reality. This type of play is fantastic - and frankly when everyone is already bringing a laptop to the game table - I'm thinking that this really is the future of the game hands down.

I would like to see it get better :)

[JohnD]

I hate baseball. I don't spend my time going on to forums dedicated to baseball to avail everyone of my distaste for their game of choice. Perhaps I’m a little unusual, but I doubt it.

[gaara6666]

I've been using FG since 2008 before Doug purchased it. I can tell you the leaps and bounds it has grown by and I can tell you the things it needs to be worked on. But what I would rather focus on for Shadzar is how well Doug takes criticism and fan effort/creativity into account. One such thing is a small community made a feature that got absorbed into the full product. That would be the different exotic fonts for the different languages and the ability to make more custom languages. It was a popular community feature to see runes for the dwarven language and only have people with that on their sheet able to translate and understand them. That feature I think is absolutely amazing by any light, that it could be looked at with a critical eye by the Smiteworks team and added as a quality of life feature.

Shadzar I think what makes FG a great "car to take off the lot" is only thinking about the software itself as HALF the vehicle. The community itself, how passionate, creative, productive, and innovative shows how we all are able to add our own extensions or mods to it to show that software that has really grown in capability and inclusiveness added to it. I for one have seen so many amazing things like D.O.E audio extensions so that secondary audio bots in discord or team speak can play music or sound effects just by me clicking a button on a shortcut inside FG and hear a sword swing or a barbarian yell. It is these kinds of out of the box creative content IN ADDITION TO the actual software itself that keeps me coming back. I would wager in the last 10 years I have over 12,000 hours on FG and I love it.

do I want more features and fixes...sure but Doug has identified really what I have seen as the most cumbersome issues and stated a plan to work on it.

[leozelig]

They have definitely demo'd a tiling map builder.
Whether its in release 1.0 or not we dont know...


https://youtu.be/xJBXbxfTwB4

No mention of wacom or similar support that I recall.

On second thought, I doubt many DMs have Wacom drawing tablets, but I could be wrong ;)

[sturtus]

I have a Wacom and dream of getting back the drawing tools from MapTool where I felt like I could improvise in real time. I used to sketch maps and character portraits and vignettes in real time.

[CrawlingChaox]

On second thought, I doubt many DMs have Wacom drawing tablets, but I could be wrong ;)
Well, I do. And I assure you, having the ability to use that in any sort of way would be absolutely amazing. But let's be real: features need to be thought with the majority in mind. As Doug said, FGU is coming around to solve memory uses, image scaling and networking. I'd say that's solid and worth the switch in itself. Yet, the things that will determine not my switching to the new version, but that of other people, are pricing and ease of use. If FGU can rework the interface to be more user-friendly, they'll end up making a lot more money (and we might get better and better features at a faster rate because of that).

[Oberoten]

'Nother Wacom user here. But I know most of my group has some sort of tablet at home.
- Obe

[LordEntrails]

I have a jar full of Advil tablets in my medicine cabinet.... is that what you mean?

Just kidding!

[Ken L]

Heh, seems we have a side-wacome discussion here.

Wacom won't need support, if you have a large map area that makes it easy to draw on, that's pretty much all you need. Vector graphics isn't specific to wacoms as it is simply the smartphone to FG's hand-held-phone-box for bitmap reliant drawings which do horrible with zoom.

FG probably won't support 'map as the background' which would be ideal for wacom users. FG traditionally also has a bunch of screen bloat that interferes with this.

[ColinBuckler]

As a GM heavily invested in Fantasy Grounds there are a few areas of improvements that I would like to see moving forwards, these being:

- Better drawing tools.
- Better icon management. Quite often players have issues with multi stacked icons/effects. It would be useful to attach circles to icons (with the ability to hide/show) for area of effects.
- Some interface management.... Maybe a tab control to cycle through the open windows. It would be helpful for both GM as well as players as I quite often hear "2 secs I am looking for window X, its somewhere under my map". Maybe a popup list of all open windows to select from, which can be ordered/filtered by a tick box.

One of the worst things about FG .... scratch that..... VTT games is the setup time between encounters, especially if its a none pre-planned encounter (wandering monster/free form stype). This is where the GM is prepping a map and encounters, whilst FG does a good job at minimalising this time there still is a "dead period" where the GM is busy but the players are not aware. In a face to face game the players can see the GM prepping the encounter/drawing a map (stock maps?)/..etc. This is where players need to understand that some prep work is required, it doesnt take any longer than in face to face games (it might actually be quicker), and for new GM's/Players this can be frustrating. To avoid this it can be useful to have a small 5 min break for the players whilst the GM does this....

[Stormhound]

To avoid this it can be useful to have a small 5 min break for the players whilst the GM does this....

Personally, I plan on putting the Final Jeopardy theme on an auto loop for the players' listening enjoyment. ;)

[Varsuuk]

Personally, I plan on putting the Final Jeopardy theme on an auto loop for the players' listening enjoyment. ;)

Was going to suggest that...


Also, btw a Wacom owner (which is more accurate to say than user since got for Xmas and haven’t had time to really experiment with it.) I figure that a “robust” in game mapping utility would be a great post release feature if it was in the SW skill set + compatible with engine. It could be an add-on/dlc for those who want it. It would be completely new work in any event. The old (better) tools would exist, but this would be a way to interface tablets to FGU.

At least that’s my thoughts and it would give them yet another small/limited (due to number who would get and have drawing tablets) revenue stream for FGU post development. Heck, maybe you can work something out in promotion with Wacom/bamboo/whoever makes these.

[leozelig]

I will add 'Wacom support for maps' to the official feature request list if it's not already there!

[Valyar]

I think just an easy way to make skins will be huge advantage as well...

[lostsanityreturned]

Thowing my two cents in regarding the pricing discussion from a couple of pages back.

I do trust SW to do the right thing, however I also will drop fantasygrounds without a second thought if FG:U moves to a subscription only model.

As it is I own every 5e module and a few Pathfinder modules, originally with the intent to get more but honestly with 2.0 on the horizon I can wait on that.

I couldn't justify spending that money if I didn't see it as a long term purchase, especially as it means that I am buying the same product thrice these days (here, beyond and physical)
I certainly wouldn't be pushing so many other people into buying licenses or encouraging others to DM in FG.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Thowing my two cents in regarding the pricing discussion from a couple of pages back.

I do trust SW to do the right thing, however I also will drop fantasygrounds without a second thought if FG:U moves to a subscription only model.

As it is I own every 5e module and a few Pathfinder modules, originally with the intent to get more but honestly with 2.0 on the horizon I can wait on that.

I couldn't justify spending that money if I didn't see it as a long term purchase, especially as it means that I am buying the same product thrice these days (here, beyond and physical)
I certainly wouldn't be pushing so many other people into buying licenses or encouraging others to DM in FG.

highly doubt they would do that.
one time purchase has been working for them.

[Varsuuk]

I don’t think they would either. I was a huge buyer of OReilly books (software engineer) and I stopped the day I went to get an old Assembler book only to find out it was by subs only now.

Since if I bought at Amazon I only got DRMer mobi, it means I have stopped* buying OReilly books and now try to find equivalents from my other big source: Informit and my prior backups of Manning, Pragmatic, NoStarch.

I also decided not to buy into Adobe’s CS once they went to subscription only. My wife now makes due with other applications as well as her old CS4 (wish I’d know and bought last stand alone for her, we intended on skipping to buy next years)

Prob a few more etcs out there for me... but I’m going back to reading my newsfeed... busy day.

*Ive GLADLY bought several Humble Bundle OReilly offerings post sub-only but it’s a pain that they are not added to my extensive member downloads in OR account.

[cobblestein]

So with this new thing which will be coming out "soon", I hear that there is an upgrade fee. which im fine with but would it work the same? Have an ultimate license and players just have demo and we can just play? What about the 5e stuff that I bought? will that just port over or will i have to purchase them AGAIN? Im curious now because im only subbed as an ultimate but if this is truly coming out "soon" would i have to go out and pay for alll of it again?
Sorry if this has been asked before, theres too many pages to go through to see if it was asked lol

[LordEntrails]

So with this new thing which will be coming out "soon", I hear that there is an upgrade fee. which im fine with but would it work the same? Have an ultimate license and players just have demo and we can just play? What about the 5e stuff that I bought? will that just port over or will i have to purchase them AGAIN? Im curious now because im only subbed as an ultimate but if this is truly coming out "soon" would i have to go out and pay for alll of it again?
Sorry if this has been asked before, theres too many pages to go through to see if it was asked lol
Welcome to the forums :)

The licensing scheme (free, standard, ultimate) will be the same. All current content will be usable with the new version, though it is possible the system may do a one-time upgrade to the content (but doubtful). No you will not have to pay for any DLC again.

Do understand that "soon" means sometime before the sun goes cold. I suspect this year personally, but SmiteWorks will not say until the product is ready for public testing (if they go that route).

[damned]

Hey cobblestein it might be out this year.

The current talk is that all DLC will upgrade for free.
FGC (current version) will continue to work but will receive fewer and fewer updates.
FGU will require an upgrade fee on some sort of sliding scale - maybe 36months and newer will get a discount with the newest users getting the biggest discount.

Subscription users wont have to do anything they can move to FGU or stay with FGC and the sub will cover both.

This is all hearsay/conjecture based on bits and pieces floating around.

[Full Bleed]

Sorry if this has been asked before, theres too many pages to go through to see if it was asked lol
This is a recurring theme.

Maybe it's time for a FGU FAQ.

[Oberoten]

I see the term "Rebuying" popping up more and more often in this thread. Does this mean that it will indeed be a full re-purchase for the new version or will it be just an upgrade fee of a part of the cost of a full license? This might be an important thing to be officially clarified.

- Obe

[damned]

I see the term "Rebuying" popping up more and more often in this thread. Does this mean that it will indeed be a full re-purchase for the new version or will it be just an upgrade fee of a part of the cost of a full license? This might be an important thing to be officially clarified.

- Obe

Obe for long time owners like ourselves - and yes im but a puppy compared to your years - it will (most likely) be a new purchase if you want FGU.

[ddavison]

There might be some discount if you already own a non-subscription license, no matter how old it is. We haven't settled on that bit yet.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

As an Administrator, by experience i know the decision about pricing this will be difficult as hell.
it is a lot of work that needs to be repayed with profits. But people who already has FG also needs to not feel damaged in any way since they bought it in the first place.

i agree with what appears to be the consensus here. Very old users should get small discounts -but still get some discount- and new ones might change it for free and users in the middle get discounts proportional to time.

There will always be someone that will feel damaged in some way, but that seems fair enough. Also the change to FGU is not compulsory, at least for now.

i wish best of luck to FG and its team.

[ddavison]

Thanks Henrique.

[Oberoten]

Truth to be told a lot of the so called dinosaurs around here has been pushing in a lot of effort to grow the userbase. Both helping newcomers with getting set up and producing content.

Much like a retirement I’d think these people ought to at the very least feel apprechiated for their work.

[ddavison]

Truth to be told a lot of the so called dinosaurs around here has been pushing in a lot of effort to grow the userbase. Both helping newcomers with getting set up and producing content.

Much like a retirement I’d think these people ought to at the very least feel apprechiated for their work.

Very true. We wouldn't be where we are without the die-hard fans in our community. I'm thinking that we should add a new category for our users. Oberoten, can we change your title to "Immortal Celestial Paragonasaurus Rex"? :bandit:

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Truth to be told a lot of the so called dinosaurs around here has been pushing in a lot of effort to grow the userbase. Both helping newcomers with getting set up and producing content.

Much like a retirement I’d think these people ought to at the very least feel apprechiated for their work.

Yep, That is why i said it is a very hard decision to any company to make. Maybe the real Dinossaurs should get some special discount. Do not know how many of you are there, but i am sure that if you are not too many FG will think on something special for you guys.

lets wait and see.

This decisions are so hard that you can compare it to naming your character lol.

[Mellock]

I've been running this old horse on Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, and now 10. I honestly don't mind getting a brand spankin' new version at retail value. The only thing I sometimes wonder about is what the transition period is gonna look like, with perhaps some of my group not immediately jumping into the FGU pool. As long as I can run the two completely side by side for a while I guess I'll be ok, but will it upset the update process in some way?

[Zacchaeus]

This is a recurring theme.

Maybe it's time for a FGU FAQ.

Here you go (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43254-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-FAQ).

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I've been running this old horse on Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, and now 10. I honestly don't mind getting a brand spankin' new version at retail value. The only thing I sometimes wonder about is what the transition period is gonna look like, with perhaps some of my group not immediately jumping into the FGU pool. As long as I can run the two completely side by side for a while I guess I'll be ok, but will it upset the update process in some way?

very strong and well thought point.

If you DM for a group where 2 players are FGC and 3 are FGU, will there be a problem?

This question is worthy of the FAQ

[Trenloe]

If you DM for a group where 2 players are FGC and 3 are FGU, will there be a problem?
FGC and FGU will not be compatible. The GM and players must all use one or the other.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

FGC and FGU will not be compatible. The GM and players must all use one or the other.

Ok, this is VERY important and i am sure it will be a problem since all tables will have to have a consensus about purchasing the new FGU.

i myself have not thought about this and i could have bought it without realizing my players would also need to buy it.

it is kindda obvious, but lots of people will surely forget it or not even think about it.

[LordEntrails]

Here you go (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43254-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-FAQ).
Thanks for doing this.

Might I suggest either you reserve a couple of posts in that thread so that as the FAQ grows you don't run out of room in the first post. Or, go ahead and lock that thread so that discussion stays in this thread.

[Zacchaeus]

Thanks for doing this.

Might I suggest either you reserve a couple of posts in that thread so that as the FAQ grows you don't run out of room in the first post. Or, go ahead and lock that thread so that discussion stays in this thread.

Good idea. Done.

[CrawlingChaox]

Ok, this is VERY important and i am sure it will be a problem since all tables will have to have a consensus about purchasing the new FGU.

i myself have not thought about this and i could have bought it without realizing my players would also need to buy it.

it is kindda obvious, but lots of people will surely forget it or not even think about it.

Assuming we have a license option similar to the current Ultimate, this won't be an issue: only the DM would need to own FG, just like the current model.

It's too early to say this won't be the case.

[damned]

Assuming we have a license option similar to the current Ultimate, this won't be an issue: only the DM would need to own FG, just like the current model.

It's too early to say this won't be the case.

There are no plans to change the current Demo/Standard/Ultimate at this time.
Some groups all have Standard licenses. If one buys FGC they will still have their FGU that they can use when playing with that group.

[shadzar]

As long as I can run the two completely side by side for a while I guess I'll be ok, but will it upset the update process in some way?

I think this asks another question. Why discontinue Classic at all? Is there going to be new content in the FG Store for Pathfinder 1? 3.5 D&D? 4e D&D?

For the people that play those, why should they have to buy Unity when they have a perfectly working product already in Classic?

How will this effect FG products on DMs Guild? Will DMs Guild be forced to cease selling all Classic FG materials so customers don't get confused about which will work with Classic and which is only for FGU?

Sure it might not get updated with all the features of Unity (or at all after some point), but FG-Lite (currently Classic) still does all of what many people need it to do, and are willing to spend money on.

and if FG-Unity truly will be backwards compatible with Classic content, then anything made for Classic on DMs Guild, now or then, will still work with FGU.


I believe it was Dulux-Oz that said something akin to...


Fantasy Grounds moves so fast it is hard to keep up, so I had to just make my extensions into a ruleset to try to keep them up to date since I can't expect SmiteWorks to use my ruleset as the base everything else is built on.

I think the DMs Guild creators might feel the same way, backwards compatibility and all, many don't have to change to FGU design schema for content production, they will still be able to design tings as if it was for Classic, and it will just luckily work for FGU, while others will get a chance to make things specifically for FGU using its new-fangled doo-dads, and thing-a-jiggers.

(Note: for all those that seem to be perpetually confused, this post has NOTHING to do with 3D dice animations.)

[dulux-oz]

I believe it was Dulux-Oz that said something akin to...

Fantasy Grounds moves so fast it is hard to keep up, so I had to just make my extensions into a ruleset to try to keep them up to date since I can't expect SmiteWorks to use my ruleset as the base everything else is built on.

I don't recall saying that. I recall saying something similar across two or three different conversations, but that is NOT a direct quote (as far as I recall) - and as such, taking parts of a person's conversations and stitching them back together again distorts their meaning and takes them out of context - which is NOT something I'm particularly happy about, so I'll ask that its not done in future, please.

Yes, Fantasy Grounds does move fast.

Yes, I made my DOE's into the DORCore Ruleset - for the sole reason of allowing as many of the "non-Standard"/Community-developed Rulesets access to the DOEs' functionality as possible (by allowing the Community Devs to base the Community Rulesets on the DORCore instead of the CoreRPG).

However, the first statement has no relation to the second.

Yes, I don't expect SW to use the DORCore as the basis of all/any of the "standard" Rulesets - which is why I'm continuing to maintaining the DOE's as well as the DORCore.

Again, the first statement has no relation to the third, and the second has only partial relevance to the third as well.

For the record, as a Community Dev with "stuff" both on the FG Forums and the DM's Guild (and soon on the FG Store, as well), after several conversations over the years with Moon and Doug (usually around coding issues, etc) I have no issue what-so-ever with the possibility of having "stuff" go redundant/whatever - the boys are just too focused on that not happening (within a reasonable timeframe).

You know, its funny (& this isn't aimed at anyone in particular) - I've seen it time and time again where people relatively new to FG come up with "brilliant ideas" of how to make FG "better" or how SW can do things "better" - and I've heard them all before! Do people really think that they know better then the company's owners or senior devs, or for that matter those of us who have been working and coding with the produce for years?

Yes, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and yes, SW welcomes feedback (as do I), but seriously guys, don't you think it'd be a better approach to ask why such-and-such a feature does/doesn't exist or why such-and-such a thing is the way it is, BEFORE delivering a pronouncement from on high that "you know the one true way to do so-and-so and SW should do it your way"?

And before anyone gets up on their "professional programmer" soapbox let me beat you to the punch by getting up on mine (feel free to check out my professional programmer qualifications and experience) - just because you get paid to write code DOES NOT make you an expert in what SW does with its software nor its company.

OK, end rant! :)

[ddavison]

We expect for FG Classic to remain in operation for some time after the release of FGU. It will take some time before FGU eclipses it in usage. Ruleset updates will continue for both FG Classic and FGU, but no new major features will be added for FG Classic outside of rulesets and content. For instance, FG Classic will never get line of sight and advanced fog of war.

Part of the reason for such a long development cycle is because we want current/classic modules to work in FGC and FGU. Future FGU modules should work in FGC but ignore the features it doesn't support. That is our goal. I can imagine that at some point we decide that it is too hard to support both because of some feature or they start to drift apart too much, but we are going to try to keep it so that the modules are compatible and FGC is always a subset of FGU.

Licenses should work the same as they are today - Free/Demo, Standard and Ultimate. In addition to upgrading from one to the other, you will be able to enable them for FGU as well by paying an upgrade fee. There will probably be a window of time when this is allowed to incentivize people to upgrade to support FGU. From there, you can still run FGC and FGU separately. Modules, rulesets and other purchases will essentially download to separate repositories on your system, so you would need twice the room if you plan to run them both. The updates are run separately, though, so you could in theory have both FGC and FGU but only upgrade FGC for the first 6 months or so until you decide to switch over and try FGU as well.

[shadzar]

that is NOT a direct quote

correct, that is why i said akin to. and it was all in the same stream, locked behind a paywall on Twitch so i am unable to clip it to provide, it probably exists on youtube however if someone else wants to track down the individual parts with their independent timestamps.

there are many professional programmers around that do and do not use VTTs of any sort. so they dont care why one software does or does not do something as a consumer, they just look for the one that offer what they need. if there are people pointing out they need things FG doesn't offer, it doesnt mean they care why it doesn't, it means as a consumer they require that from a product they wish to spend money on.

that aside, you should now how quickly a software "customer" (not to be confused with end-user) can put in change orders that cause setbacks. ;)


We expect for FG Classic to remain in operation for some time after the release of FGU. It will take some time before FGU eclipses it in usage. Ruleset updates will continue for both FG Classic and FGU, but no new major features will be added for FG Classic outside of rulesets and content. For instance, FG Classic will never get line of sight and advanced fog of war.

Part of the reason for such a long development cycle is because we want current/classic modules to work in FGC and FGU. Future FGU modules should work in FGC but ignore the features it doesn't support. That is our goal.

this is FAQ worthy, and good to hear... read. it seemed many thought/feared that FGU would come out and within the same year Classic would be discontinued.

not only is FGU being made backwards compatible, but for a while Classic is being made future-proofed as well.. sort of.

[dulux-oz]

correct, that is why i said akin to. and it was all in the same stream, locked behind a paywall on Twitch so i am unable to clip it to provide, it probably exists on youtube however if someone else wants to track down the individual parts with their independent timestamps.

If you are referring to Rob2e's Podcaste All Things Fantasy Grounds (Episode 13) it's on YouTube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1DgwvYOkDw).

And saying "akin to" does not excuse anyone of taking parts of one or more conversations and stitching those parts back together out of context to make them sound as if the speaker were saying (or implying) something that they were not - that's dishonest and in some circumstances liable. As people may guess, I'm not happy about it!



And I'm still waiting for an apology.

[shadzar]

I believe it was Dulux-Oz that said something akin to...


Fantasy Grounds moves so fast it is hard to keep up, so I had to just make my extensions into a ruleset to try to keep them up to date since I can't expect SmiteWorks to use my ruleset as the base everything else is built on.

Yes, Fantasy Grounds does move fast.

Yes, I made my DOE's into the DORCore Ruleset - for the sole reason of allowing as many of the "non-Standard"/Community-developed Rulesets access to the DOEs' functionality as possible (by allowing the Community Devs to base the Community Rulesets on the DORCore instead of the CoreRPG).

However, the first statement has no relation to the second.

~~~
Again, the first statement has no relation to the third, and the second has only partial relevance to the third as well.


lets look shall we since oddly enough it is being Rerun right now...

ok, first part was with another "question", however the 2nd and 3rd parts were never spoken to be tangentially/partially related at the time the comment was made.

and as i paraphrased "can't" from "unreasonable".

it was a long episode, maybe it is unreasonable for you to expect a viewer to remember the full and exact wording of a 2+ hour stream crammed with everything that is DOE released, and even some thing that haven't been released yet.


https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudKawaiiThymeKappaClaus

[ddavison]

Let’s please move that discussion off to PM or another thread. I don’t believe it is adding anything positive to the discussion about FG Unity.

[Valyar]

@ddavison - is there plan to include some functionality to sync campaign data between computers in easy way, or the task should continue as of now - manually copying the files via some mediums - flash stick, cloud storage or other arcane means.

[ddavison]

There are no plans for syncing campaign data. That might change in the future but nothing on the table now.

[Patou]

We expect for FG Classic to remain in operation for some time after the release of FGU. It will take some time before FGU eclipses it in usage. Ruleset updates will continue for both FG Classic and FGU, but no new major features will be added for FG Classic outside of rulesets and content. For instance, FG Classic will never get line of sight and advanced fog of war.

Part of the reason for such a long development cycle is because we want current/classic modules to work in FGC and FGU. Future FGU modules should work in FGC but ignore the features it doesn't support. That is our goal. I can imagine that at some point we decide that it is too hard to support both because of some feature or they start to drift apart too much, but we are going to try to keep it so that the modules are compatible and FGC is always a subset of FGU.

Licenses should work the same as they are today - Free/Demo, Standard and Ultimate. In addition to upgrading from one to the other, you will be able to enable them for FGU as well by paying an upgrade fee. There will probably be a window of time when this is allowed to incentivize people to upgrade to support FGU. From there, you can still run FGC and FGU separately. Modules, rulesets and other purchases will essentially download to separate repositories on your system, so you would need twice the room if you plan to run them both. The updates are run separately, though, so you could in theory have both FGC and FGU but only upgrade FGC for the first 6 months or so until you decide to switch over and try FGU as well.

Hi Doug,

So if I understand correctly being a current ultimate licence user with all current 5E official WotC content package I would have to get the FGU upgrade and then all would update/transition from FGC to FGU?

Thanks

[grakus]

I, like Valyar, would LOVE to see some form of syncing option before any other feature. Right now I have been using a SVN+VPN server combo I setup at my house in order to sync my whole FG directory between systems easily while at home or when away from home ("easily" now that those servers are up and running that is which is well beyond what most users / DMs will do). This was required because I travel a LOT for work and still try to DM at least once a week for my group.

Grakus

[ddavison]

@Patou,

Yes.

@grakus, we agree it would be cool. I think at this time that the % of users who need something like that is still relatively low though and other features should take priority.

[celestian]

So, with all this FGU chatter lately I decided to look at Unity itself. Been readin and watching a lot of videos for it. Ran through several tutorials and even made some simple games. One thing I noticed is the ability to have Lua "used" in Unity to directly use Unity functions. You're able to do a lot of things (based on what I've seen with Moonsharp and NLua) that are not possible with FGC doing this.

Will those sort of tools be available with FGU? Will we be able to use Lua to directly utilize Unity?

[dulux-oz]

Will those sort of tools be available with FGU? Will we be able to use Lua to directly utilize Unity?

God, I hope so!

[pindercarl]

So, with all this FGU chatter lately I decided to look at Unity itself. Been readin and watching a lot of videos for it. Ran through several tutorials and even made some simple games. One thing I noticed is the ability to have Lua "used" in Unity to directly use Unity functions. You're able to do a lot of things (based on what I've seen with Moonsharp and NLua) that are not possible with FGC doing this.

Will those sort of tools be available with FGU? Will we be able to use Lua to directly utilize Unity?

There are currently no plans to allow direct access to any of the Unity API and I would be surprised if that position changed.

[Dax Doomslayer]

I'm not sure if this has been covered. Once one upgrades to FGU, do you lose the license to your FG Classic upon upgrading or is it you are licensed for both? If you can only run the same versions across the table (which makes sense), this may create a situation where some of my players may not upgrade and others do so you'd lose the ability to play with one group or the other. If this has been addressed, my apologies for the duplicate question.

[ddavison]

I'm not sure if this has been covered. Once one upgrades to FGU, do you lose the license to your FG Classic upon upgrading or is it you are licensed for both? If you can only run the same versions across the table (which makes sense), this may create a situation where some of my players may not upgrade and others do so you'd lose the ability to play with one group or the other. If this has been addressed, my apologies for the duplicate question.

Nope. It will continue to work for FG Classic.

[celestian]

There are currently no plans to allow direct access to any of the Unity API and I would be surprised if that position changed.

I suspected as much but was hoping. Lots of cool things we could do.

[g0ntzal]

Are you considering multi-language (FGU app and rulesets)? Language is a barrier to some non English-speaking people from all over the world.

[Moon Wizard]

We are looking at making the engine support UTF-8 characters and working fully with TTF fonts to support UTF-8 characters, so that non-English languages work when used within the application.

However, we do not currently have plans for localizing any of the DLC, which is a massive undertaking.

Regards,
JPG

[seycyrus]

What is this, a FGU wish list?

If so, please put me down for ... more than one combat tracker. My party always splits up, and I'm perpetually going from one group to the next 15 minutes of combat here, 15 minutes of combat there ...

[ddavison]

What is this, a FGU wish list?

If so, please put me down for ... more than one combat tracker. My party always splits up, and I'm perpetually going from one group to the next 15 minutes of combat here, 15 minutes of combat there ...

That should only happen once... let's be honest. :o

[seycyrus]

That should only happen once... let's be honest. :o

Yeah, I wish! But, there are reasons why multiple CTs can't be a thing, if i recall from some other thread, right?

Could something be done to make it more feasible?

[Valyar]

Unicode... yay! :p

[Stormhound]

Unicode... yay! :p

Isn't that something that can only be written by virgin programmers?

[Full Bleed]

Yeah, I wish! But, there are reasons why multiple CTs can't be a thing, if i recall from some other thread, right?

Could something be done to make it more feasible?
The best way would probably be for the CT to be map dependent. So if a party split you would move them to a separate map. Some players have a real penchant for doing this. However, last thing I'd want would be multiple CT windows to manage. I'd want FGU to be smart enough to be displaying the tracker of the map that had "focus" so you could click between CT's and maps simultaneously.

[shadzar]

The best way would probably be for the CT to be map dependent. So if a party split you would move them to a separate map. Some players have a real penchant for doing this. However, last thing I'd want would be multiple CT windows to manage. I'd want FGU to be smart enough to be displaying the tracker of the map that had "focus" so you could click between CT's and maps simultaneously.

This is already how people think it works when they first use FG. They move tokens to the map, then to the CT.... because that is the intuitive way to play an RPG, you use the things on the map to do stuff with. FG is unintuitive and backwards having it need to be in a singular combat tracker, then moving form there o the map, means you can't prep a map fully in advance.

If it was Map first, CT after, then not only could you prep a full map long in advance and when you load the map all the NPC tokens, encounters, and monsters load into the CT automatically, but when you load a new map you also load a new CT.

This means each map has its own set of data, which would allow for split parties.

not to mention being able to just load a map and all things in the "CT" ready and hidden from players until they are seen with "dynamic lighting", would make coding adventures better and easier, and prepping a new encounter faster as you play.

Sadly the CT doesnt see the map at all so can't get any information form it to make it the more intuitive way of Map -> CT.

Then how do you save a campaign with a split party? well that would jsut save the map and tokens and character/NPC states, and the CT info is stored with the map for each map... so when you load a map again, it restores the last data within the map to the CT for that map.

Might be best to only allow the program to load one CT at a time, though each map has its own data. so you might have 2 maps open, but only one CT window will ever be open, for the "active" map, and the CT will show on the title bar or something which map it is currently tracking.


....ideas.

[CrawlingChaox]

You can absolutely prepare encounters on the map before the game.

[Valyar]

Roll20.net has this nailed. When you link a token to character sheet and map token's stats, they follow you on all maps simultaneously, as the Char Journal is the single source of truth and all tokens are copies and linked to it.

[Trenloe]

It's a different way of thinking. FG is not token orientated. It is CT orientated. Just shift your thinking.

[Zacchaeus]

Surely the current CT handles the party spread across multiple maps just fine. Or am I missing something here?

[shadzar]

Surely the current CT handles the party spread across multiple maps just fine. Or am I missing something here?

Yes and no.

If you need to for some reason split time, and do things with one group until it is done in a split party, then "meanwhile in another part of the dungeon..." with the other group. it doesnt' account for that

the CT only allows for real time as the initiative is tracked, and even rerolled every round if that part is used (unless you can turn that off) so even the things not in the same map would be on it. you would have 1 CT open, 2 maps, and EVERYTHING from both maps in the one CT being tracking at the same time, meaning it would break up map A battle, to now go over to map B, and the payers would probably get more bored waiting for their turn during combat because when it comes back to their map as they flip back and forth in real time, they would have forgot what they were doing, the DM is effectively running two combats at the same time...

logistical nightmare as opposed to "Ok lets finish with Group A, then they will take a break while we move to Group B over on this other map" which would keep things more cohesive for everyone during play. currently that would mean removing payers form MAp A from the CT when on map B, if you wanted to do the normal way most people split parties and have comabts. I have never seen anyone remove a PC from the CT unless they were removed form the game via player no longer playing, or PC is dead and replcaed with a new one... so not sure how that works.



@ "FG is CT oriented"...

Nobody plays FG, people play RPGs and they are map oriented...

[Trenloe]

@ "FG is CT oriented"...

Nobody plays FG, people play RPGs and they are map oriented...
Are they? Really? I've played RPGs many, many, many times without a map. But when encounters kick off I need a way of tracking the order of participants.

Anyway - I'm not going to argue with you, as you seem to like arguing just for the hell of it (or so it appears from your posts).

The statement I made about FG being CT orientated was fact - pure and simple. And it's a very important fact to remember when using FG. Take that on board. Or don't. It's up to you.

[damned]

Shadzar have you looked at encounters yet?
Encounters work very, very well and they do not leave the CT cluttered.

Your games might be map oriented.
What has that got to do with the way anyone else plays RPGs?
RPGs are story oriented and they are combat oriented and the split between the two of those varies greatly from group to group and system to system.

[ddavison]

I've never had a problem running split parties. I prefer to have it operate in real time instead of abstracting two timelines separately. Set the option to center on the token as their turn comes up and you'll be fine. If you prefer, leave that off and just double-click the token as it comes up so you can switch to the active map and token as the GM while players leave up the map that is active to them. Use map tokens for targeting of attacks. If you need to do finish one completely before doing the other group, then just run the one map plus encounter 1 with group A, then swap the PCs and kick off encounter 2 for group B. Two encounters, two maps, two groups, one CT -- works fine.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Yes and no.

If you need to for some reason split time, and do things with one group until it is done in a split party, then "meanwhile in another part of the dungeon..." with the other group. it doesnt' account for that

the CT only allows for real time as the initiative is tracked, and even rerolled every round if that part is used (unless you can turn that off) so even the things not in the same map would be on it. you would have 1 CT open, 2 maps, and EVERYTHING from both maps in the one CT being tracking at the same time, meaning it would break up map A battle, to now go over to map B, and the payers would probably get more bored waiting for their turn during combat because when it comes back to their map as they flip back and forth in real time, they would have forgot what they were doing, the DM is effectively running two combats at the same time...

logistical nightmare as opposed to "Ok lets finish with Group A, then they will take a break while we move to Group B over on this other map" which would keep things more cohesive for everyone during play. currently that would mean removing payers form MAp A from the CT when on map B, if you wanted to do the normal way most people split parties and have comabts. I have never seen anyone remove a PC from the CT unless they were removed form the game via player no longer playing, or PC is dead and replcaed with a new one... so not sure how that works.



@ "FG is CT oriented"...

Nobody plays FG, people play RPGs and they are map oriented...

Actually for me CT does its job better than if it was map oriented.
Lets say the group is split, and they are in two different maps, of one is solving a puzzle and the other one is in a combat.

you could just use initiative so everyone has their turn on doing something. While one player in a different map is trying to guess an answer to a puzzle on his turn, the other one might make an attack on other map against a creature.

in that way the DM doesnt have to focus on one single map at a time or DMing separately, making one group wait for the conclusion of the other one.
i makes you easily track what things are being done at the same time without needing to rapidly changing maps. (or even making all of this without one.)

[seycyrus]

I've never had a problem running split parties. I prefer to have it operate in real time instead of abstracting two timelines separately. ...

Well, perhaps it is just that you are a much better GM, than I am, but for me it is a real headache. Subgroup A, subgroup B (and sometimes subgroup C!) run into groups of monsters, at the same moment in realtime (because of the pace of exploration - going down a 100 yd. corridor does not generally take 10x the amount of realtime to roleplay as going down a 10 yd. corridor), but are separated from each other by 5 minutes of gametime. Maybe it is the timescale of GURPS (simultaneous 1 second rounds), that complicates things.

[ddavison]

@seycyrus, what are the steps where you seem to be taking the most time? Perhaps there are some tips we can give you to speed those up.

[seycyrus]

@seycyrus, what are the steps where you seem to be taking the most time? Perhaps there are some tips we can give you to speed those up.

I shall start another thread!

[Bonkon]

I shall start another thread!

I did not see a new thread and just wanted to throw out a suggestion that might work.
How about you set the PC's in one group in the CT to enemies and hide them and skip hidden actors. After you are done with the active players, you swap them out.

Not sure how well it would work, thoughts?

[seycyrus]

I did not see a new thread and just wanted to throw out a suggestion that might work.
How about you set the PC's in one group in the CT to enemies and hide them and skip hidden actors. After you are done with the active players, you swap them out.

Not sure how well it would work, thoughts?

Thank you for your input! I really do plan on starting a thread about this, but it might have to wait until tomorrow, as i have to take care of a few things in rl.

[gandhi39]

It would be nice if window management worked a little bit more like microsoft windows manages it. Minimize button, maximize button, half-screen/quarter screen/side-by-side arrangement, more pixel precision when clicking on sides or corners to resize...

[Valyar]

It would be nice if window management worked a little bit more like microsoft windows manages it. Minimize button, maximize button, half-screen/quarter screen/side-by-side arrangement, more pixel precision when clicking on sides or corners to resize...

And shortcuts that do not mess with the one in Windows for those features :)

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

It would be nice if window management worked a little bit more like microsoft windows manages it. Minimize button, maximize button, half-screen/quarter screen/side-by-side arrangement, more pixel precision when clicking on sides or corners to resize...

Hell yes, it should. Excelent idea.

[shadzar]

does anyone actually use what 48 hotkeys? what if it wasnt a key+click, but a key to change the hotkeys and it stays that way until you press another key.

Defaults to Shift, then you can use CTRL to select a 2nd group, and ALT to select a 3rd, and Shift to go back to the first one.

Then people using VOIP, since FG doesn't have it built in, dont have to reassign their Shift keys to something else to use 12 of the hotkeys when they try to Shift+click one of them and turn on their Push-to-talk.

likewise for people using CTRL, or ALT for PTT, they would not ha 12 hotkey set that would alwys have the racket in their neighborhood blasting the other players on VOIP while trying to use those 12 hotkeys, only for 1 seconds long enough to change to the ALT, Shift, or CTRL hotkey menu, then let go to click anything without triggering PTT.

[Andraax]

Ugh. I'd hate to use the stupid MicroSoft style UI.

And there are more than 48 hotkeys, there are also combinations like Ctrl-Alt, Shift-Alt, etc. I use them all the time.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Ugh. I'd hate to use the stupid MicroSoft style UI.

And there are more than 48 hotkeys, there are also combinations like Ctrl-Alt, Shift-Alt, etc. I use them all the time.

Well, it is better than having to manually dragging and adjusting every screen everytime.

Just drag the map to the right side and it should auto-adjust.

Windows 10 is wonderful at that

[Andraax]

You might have a problem with your install. On my system, it remembers the window size and position, and reopens it at the same place.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

You might have a problem with your install. On my system, it remembers the window size and position, and reopens it at the same place.

Yes, it remembers for the ones you already opened. Every time i open a new map i have to slowly resize it to the desired position.
It does not remember "Map positions", it remembers "This one image" position.

if i could set "Every map goes there and at this size" it would not be a problem, but it does not.

[Andraax]

I just grab the bottom right corner and drag the corner to make it the right size, then grab the title bar to relocate it. It takes no more than a few seconds... And if the bottom right corner is off the screen for some reason, I hold Ctrl and drag up and to the left until the corner shows up.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I just grab the bottom right corner and drag the corner to make it the right size, then grab the title bar to relocate it. It takes no more than a few seconds... And if the bottom right corner is off the screen for some reason, I hold Ctrl and drag up and to the left until the corner shows up.

Yes, it just takes a few seconds. Too many few seconds. Specially if you have more screens opened and two monitors with different sizes.

Just drag it to the right/top side of the screen and it should auto-size it. It would take 2 seconds tops. Less time sizing screens, more time playing.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes, it just takes a few seconds. Too many few seconds. Specially if you have more screens opened and two monitors with different sizes.

Just drag it to the right/top side of the screen and it should auto-size it. It would take 2 seconds tops. Less time sizing screens, more time playing.

What if I want my maps on the left? Or the middle? Or 1/3 of the way up on my second monitor but only on a Tuesday?

[Trenloe]

As usual, this is all personal preference. Sometimes Windows 10 auto docking/maximizing/etc. annoys the hell out of me. So I wouldn't want it in FG, as that would annoy the hell out of me too. As I say, all personal preference.

@Henrique Oliveira Machado - At present I think you're the only one asking for something like this. I recommend you add it to the FG wishlist, and post the link here, so that people can vote on it. Maybe if lots of people want it (or something similar) the FG devs will consider something like this.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

What if I want my maps on the left? Or the middle? Or 1/3 of the way up on my second monitor but only on a Tuesday?

Well you could do it manually just like we do it today, by spending "just a few seconds". Windows does not prevent you from sizing your screens manually, nor should FG

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

As usual, this is all personal preference. Sometimes Windows 10 auto docking/maximizing/etc. annoys the hell out of me. So I wouldn't want it in FG, as that would annoy the hell out of me too. As I say, all personal preference.

@Henrique Oliveira Machado - At present I think you're the only one asking for something like this. I recommend you add it to the FG wishlist, and post the link here, so that people can vote on it. Maybe if lots of people want it (or something similar) the FG devs will consider something like this.

Well, actually it is not my idea, it is @Gandhi39 idea.

It is not something i really think it is necessary for FG to have nor that they should turn their attention fully in this subject, but it is one that would speed up my prep a LOT for quick setting a functional screen.

I really do think, however, that FG should turn their attention a lot to screen management.

[damned]

Hi Henrique my advice on Window Management is a little different.
I sugest you close almost every window once you click off it.
Combat Tracker, Chat, Map, Current Story are always open.
Everything else - I close it once Im opening something else.
It takes way less clicks to open again from the source, or from a pin or from a hot key than it does to cycle through 23 windows.

[Full Bleed]

At present I think you're the only one asking for something like this.
Maybe something *specifically* like this... but window management in FG (or the lack therein) is a very common criticism. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever played a session where someone didn't complain about it at some point. So whether the answer is tabs, smart-snapping, better default options/behaviour, or some other magic... there is certainly a lot of room for FGU to improve over FG in this arena.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Maybe something *specifically* like this... but window management in FG (or the lack therein) is a very common criticism. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever played a session where someone didn't complain about it at some point. So whether the answer is tabs, smart-snapping, better default options/behaviour, or some other magic... there is certainly a lot of room for FGU to improve over FG in this arena.

Yep. we are 3 now in two pages. Even one of the veterans said (paraphrasing) "we already have too many people complaining about lots of screens and lack of space" to me once when i asked about possibility of a extention about a little popup for quick approving movement, so i am sure it is a frequent topic in here. I am here for 2-3 weeks and lack of screen management is the one thing i actually did not like in FG.

yeah, you can adapt/get used to it, just like you do with everything in your life, but still it is bad.

it doesn\t need to be what we suggested, but something should definitely be done about the lack of screen management.
yeah, you can keep closing the screens and opening them again, sure. Using pins too, they are great.

but the screen is the only place where you do everything and is using 100% of the time. It is the least and at the same time the most important place in the VTT.
if it was good it would not have tutorials in the internet about how to actually make it tolerable by organizing things in certain positions.
SW should definitely think about some standard here on what works best and just allow players to manually adjust themselves if they want something different than what works best for most people.

I realized some veterans try to fight for FG name with everything they get and sometimes they do not see improvements that can be made because they love the software as it is, and i agree, it is great, but it has some flaws like everything else. Other veterans realize it and try to help you the best they can about how they use the software from experience.

[Trenloe]

it doesn\t need to be what we suggested, but something should definitely be done about the lack of screen management.
I was referring to your specific request for Windows 10 like docking/sizing of windows. It's good that you gave details of what you'd actually want to see. A lot of people just say "it needs to be better" but don't offer solutions. Some do, but most don't.

Anyway, if you have any specific things you'd like to see in FG, please add them to the wishlist. Then the devs can get ideas and make the decision on what is possible/makes sense/etc..

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I was referring to your specific request for Windows 10 like docking/sizing of windows. It's good that you gave details of what you'd actually want to see. A lot of people just say "it needs to be better" but don't offer solutions. Some do, but most don't.

Anyway, if you have any specific things you'd like to see in FG, please add them to the wishlist. Then the devs can get ideas and make the decision on what is possible/makes sense/etc..

Again, it was not my idea.

Also i do not think this should go into the wishlist as "A windows 10 screen management" but "Please improve the screen management by doing something" lol.

honestly, being able to manually lock map positioning the same way we do with the chat would already help a lot, instead of using that confusing button on the bottom of it or the keyboard shortcuts + pointer.

[Trenloe]

I'm all for good changes - as long as they don't force functionality on you (Windows 10 like auto maximize, for example).

Throwing some ideas out there that could possibly be made to work in the current FG interface:
- A menu to close all or minimize all windows?
- A right-click option on each of the desktop data buttons to close-all or minimize all windows open of that specific type. e.g. close all "Story" windows.
- An option to pre-set the size/position of new windows of a specific window type (the first time they are opened) - right-click on the header bar of a specific window type (e.g. images) and select "Set new window position/size". A bit similar to the ability to set the dice position on the desktop.

These all provide some ways of decluttering the FG desktop, without forcing functionality on the user, they are menu options that can be used if desired.

[Trenloe]

Also i do not think this should go into the wishlist as "A windows 10 screen management" but "Please improve the screen management by doing something" lol.
Yeah, there we go - saying "it needs to be better" but with no details - thanks for proving my point! ;) This is why I'm asking for specifics! Most people will agree that they are open to "improvements" but it will all depend on exactly what those "improvements" are. Just asking to "improve screen management" means either something different to everyone or means essentially nothing and doesn't help anyone.


manually lock map positioning the same way we do with the chat would already help a lot, instead of using that confusing button on the bottom of it
I'm not sure how the confusing button relates to locking map positioning the same way chat does. Can you expand on that?

[damned]

I realized some veterans try to fight for FG name with everything they get and sometimes they do not see improvements that can be made because they love the software as it is, and i agree, it is great, but it has some flaws like everything else. Other veterans realize it and try to help you the best they can about how they use the software from experience.

I humbly suggest that you are not quite correct in this.
Many of the **veterans** as you call them dont take things as they are but actively work to mould, tweak, extend the system when we think it can do things better.

Think about your dining room table when you are playing.
You have some maps on the table and minis and dice scattered all about.
You have a half dozen books and maybe more.
The books have a stack of bookmarks so you can find all those pages you think you will need and you are only ever half right.
You have a few photocopies and even more post it notes.

Playing RPGs is often an exercise in finding one piece of info after another.

Sure...
But the digital table top simplifies all that right!
Maybe?

Actually - you still have maps, minis, books, bookmarks, notes and loose pages.
So play it like you do at the table and have them all open at the same time and be flicking between one and another, looking under this and that to find that piece of information.

Yeah, yeah, but the computer can keep these all organised right!
Maybe...
Except that everything is a different data type so they are not just lots of windows you can cycle through like tabs on your browser.
Its more like having a dozen tabs open in Chrome, 4 in Excel, 3 in Word, 5 Image files etc etc.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the FG interface and how to improve it - especially when people start threads like this one.
Most of the time I come back to appreciating the current interface.

Anyway... all of the above is why my approach is... to let the tech and the interface take care of stuff.
Close every window down (bar 4 or maybe 5) when I want to open another.
I drag links to the hot keys and I have pins on maps.
When I need something its usually less than 3 clicks away.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Yeah, there we go - saying "it needs to be better" but with no details - thanks for proving my point! ;) This is why I'm asking for specifics! Most people will agree that they are open to "improvements" but it will all depend on exactly what those "improvements" are. Just asking to "improve screen management" means either something different to everyone or means essentially nothing and doesn't help anyone.

That is not what i meant. An "auto-sizing screens" feature would definitely work as a solution, but the developers should still hear some other ideas. A massive brainstorm is needed in that subject with the users.
"A windows 10 feature" would not get as many votes as "Give more attention about the screen management".

i am sorry for not being clear. My native language is Portuguese.



I'm not sure how the confusing button relates to locking map positioning the same way chat does. Can you expand on that?

Well, nowadays if you want to navigate through/zoom in-out the map you need to click on the golden button and drag it. If you click anywhere outside the golden button and drag it, it will move the map altogether.
If you were able to lock the map, the golden button would not be needed. you could:
1) Navigate thought the map by clicking and dragging on it without needing to pursue the button. Just click and drag from anywhere.
2) Navigate through the map just by putting the pointer for a few seconds on the side of the map screen, or something like that, just like age of empires did it. (that is an idea - not necessarily ideal).
3) not accidentally moving the map when missing a token.
4) Zooming in and out without needing to pursue the button, just by hovering the mouse and wheeling up/down or using the pinch movement in the touchpad.
5) open all maps in the same position by default, so no need of losing time adjusting every time you open a new map.

[damned]

Hi Henrique

Some quick responses...

1. Click and hold the middle mouse button or scroll wheel to drag the map in any direction.
2. AoE only had one screen, one map... see point above.
3.
4. I zoom in and out all the time using mouse scroll wheel
5. All maps do load in the same position. They are all centered in the middle of the screen and shown at full size unless that size is bigger than the screen.

[Trenloe]

"A windows 10 feature" would not get as many votes as "Give more attention about the screen management".
The devs are very much aware and are "[giving] more attention about the screen management". The point I've made more than once is still valid - just saying give us "better screen management" means nothing. But, if it makes you feel better, keep saying it.

My recommendation to you: If you *really* want to help the Fantasy Grounds interface become better, please make clear and concise suggestions. Not high level "improve it" statements with no details. Then log them in the FG Wishlist here: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/



I humbly suggest that you are not quite correct in this.
Many of the **veterans** as you call them dont take things as they are but actively work to mould, tweak, extend the system when we think it can do things better.
Indeed.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Hi Henrique

Some quick responses...

1. Click and hold the middle mouse button or scroll wheel to drag the map in any direction.
2. AoE only had one screen, one map... see point above.
3.
4. I zoom in and out all the time using mouse scroll wheel
5. All maps do load in the same position. They are all centered in the middle of the screen and shown at full size unless that size is bigger than the screen.

Thanks for answering.
Just a few comments.
1. Well, middle mouse button is not available in a touchpad.
2. yeah, that was just an idea of something that could be done
3.
4. have to hold Ctrl tho, right?
5. My maps always get way bigger than my screen and i have to manually adjust it a lot, so i thought they always opened in their full size. What is happening with my game? Maybe it is because i use two screens. One being a TV?

PS: I play face-to-face with the player instance in a big TV and the DM side on my notebook screen.

the 5th point is the most important one, and the one that annoys me the most.

[Trenloe]

Well, nowadays if you want to navigate through/zoom in-out the map you need to click on the golden button and drag it. If you click anywhere outside the golden button and drag it, it will move the map altogether.
Thanks for clarifying.

As damned has mentioned you can zoom and pan with the mouse wheel/middle mouse button.

Moving the whole map window from anywhere within that window with the left mouse button is useful functionality - especially for those that like to have their maps very large (larger than the screen) and need to move the map around without having access to the map window title bar. I use this functionality all the time - especially when using FG as a digital battlemap for face-to-face games.

As I also mentioned earlier - a lot of this is personal preference: what one person wants another person might not want. It's not about being a huge veteran fan of FG and not wanting to change, it's about wanting to keep key pieces of functionality that we use every session and don't want to lose. And also, from our veteran experience, being able to see possible issues with what people are proposing.

Don't think that because you see a "Join date" of a long time ago that us veterans aren't open to change - as damned has pointed out, a lot of the veterans provide many hours of their time to the community - to provide extensions (to change FG functionality) and information/examples to enable others to change FG too. Most of us are not set in our ways at all!

[Trenloe]

4. have to hold Ctrl tho, right?
Nope. Just use the mousewheel.


5. My maps always get way bigger than my screen and i have to manually adjust it a lot, so i thought they always opened in their full size. What is happening with my game? Maybe it is because i use two screens. One being a TV?

See here for information on quickly resizing a map: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43158-Map-resizing-impossible-once-maximized&p=383728&viewfull=1#post383728

Plus, there is also a new(ish) option via the right-click resize menu for large maps: "Small Size" - that reduces the image to a small size so that you can then more easily size to something you want.


PS: I play face-to-face with the player instance in a big TV and the DM side on my notebook screen.
So do I. I use my TV flat on the table as a battlemap. This extension may be of use to you: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33834-Map-resize-to-TV-resolution-for-Face-To-Face-games

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I'm all for good changes - as long as they don't force functionality on you (Windows 10 like auto maximize, for example).

Throwing some ideas out there that could possibly be made to work in the current FG interface:
- A menu to close all or minimize all windows?
- A right-click option on each of the desktop data buttons to close-all or minimize all windows open of that specific type. e.g. close all "Story" windows.
- An option to pre-set the size/position of new windows of a specific window type (the first time they are opened) - right-click on the header bar of a specific window type (e.g. images) and select "Set new window position/size". A bit similar to the ability to set the dice position on the desktop.

These all provide some ways of decluttering the FG desktop, without forcing functionality on the user, they are menu options that can be used if desired.

He** yes, that is exactly all the things i was thinking when i said "option to lock positions". having preset positions and letting players to manually adjust them is the most important thing. But as far as i understand, all maps are treated as common images, and not a "map type image" right?

That is precisely why i was trying to say: we need to brainstorm like we are doing now first before adding options to the wishlist.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I am learning a lot wth you guys.

but first let me clarify one thing:
I did not meant that Veterans do not help, and definitely did not meant to hurt or attack anyone. They actually help a lot as i see everyday the help you guys give me, the extentions you create, etc.
But sometimes i see veterans rejecting ideas simply because they are not the way they do things ,and they do not want anyone to have this functionality.

Autosizing screens by dragging them to the sides of the screen would not prevent anyone for manually adjusting the screen size as people currently do it. It could even be a right click option to "Adjust image to the top half", "Adjust image to the top right half", "Adjust image to the left side", "Adjust image to full screen", just like Trenloe mentioned. If you want to manually adjust everything, you could just do not click on it or not drag it, Whatever is our choice. They could just keep doing their ctrl+mouse thing.

Currently we have "Small size" "Big size", etc. options, this suggestion could substitute or add to that.

locking positions of "image archetypes" like trenloe mentioned could also be a solution just as fine. As far as i am concerned, both could exist and work together, and the first one could be turned off at the options menu (if it were to be automatic, not a right click menu), so it is not necessarily "Forcing functionalities" on anyone.

[notrealdan]

I wouldn't mind an option for all maps/images to open for the first time scaled to something that fits within the FG window, and then remember whatever scale it is later resized to (as it does now). It never made sense to me that it always opens images (for the first time) at 100% scale, especially since some of the controls are located in the corner most likely to go off-screen. Maybe this is one of those things that's difficult to change in the FGC engine, and something easier to do in FGU?

I think the confusion about Ctrl+mouse wheel might be from the option "Mouse: Wheel number editing" which can be set to Ctrl or Always. Not related to maps/images.

I'd also just like to say that I believe it's incredibly beneficial for new users to bring in a fresh perspective, especially for something so long-standing as Fantasy Grounds. UI norms have changed since FG was originally designed, and a lot of the optimal ways-of-working in FG are not immediately obvious, in my opinion. It's often difficult for long-time users (like myself) to even see some things that we've long-since adapted to, gotten used to just dealing with, or simply never considered a new way of doing. That's just natural, and this is not a dig or pointed any anyone in particular. These things can be glaring and even off-putting to newer users, and their feedback is very valuable. It is equally valuable for new users to learn from the "veterans" about how they've adapted and what tricks/habits they've learned along the way.

We're very lucky to have such a wonderful, helpful community surrounding Fantasy Grounds!

[Trenloe]

I wouldn't mind an option for all maps/images to open for the first time scaled to something that fits within the FG window, and then remember whatever scale it is later resized to (as it does now). It never made sense to me that it always opens images (for the first time) at 100% scale, especially since some of the controls are located in the corner most likely to go off-screen.
Yeah, that could be a good option to have.

In the meantime, see the video here for the very quick way to make large maps fit to your screen: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34902-Very-cool-map-Kiskstarter-finishing-soon-great-VTT-maps&p=304700&viewfull=1#post304700

[Trenloe]

I think that there is never a perfect option of how to open maps/images/windows that will give the exact size/position more often than not. If they open in the same position every time (whether as new windows, or via a new preset position option), it's more than likely that most users will then do a little bit of resizing/re-positioning based off the date being displayed (size of map/image, amount of text in the story entry, etc.) and the current desktop real-estate usage. The tools are there now to allow the GM to resize (via edge handles or CTRL+click-and-drag) and move windows (easy to move quickly as you can click anywhere in a window, not just the title bar, to move). And, as is shown in the video above - the tools are there to quickly resize large maps.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I wouldn't mind an option for all maps/images to open for the first time scaled to something that fits within the FG window, and then remember whatever scale it is later resized to (as it does now). It never made sense to me that it always opens images (for the first time) at 100% scale, especially since some of the controls are located in the corner most likely to go off-screen. Maybe this is one of those things that's difficult to change in the FGC engine, and something easier to do in FGU?

I think the confusion about Ctrl+mouse wheel might be from the option "Mouse: Wheel number editing" which can be set to Ctrl or Always. Not related to maps/images.

I'd also just like to say that I believe it's incredibly beneficial for new users to bring in a fresh perspective, especially for something so long-standing as Fantasy Grounds. UI norms have changed since FG was originally designed, and a lot of the optimal ways-of-working in FG are not immediately obvious, in my opinion. It's often difficult for long-time users (like myself) to even see some things that we've long-since adapted to, gotten used to just dealing with, or simply never considered a new way of doing. That's just natural, and this is not a dig or pointed any anyone in particular. These things can be glaring and even off-putting to newer users, and their feedback is very valuable. It is equally valuable for new users to learn from the "veterans" about how they've adapted and what tricks/habits they've learned along the way.

We're very lucky to have such a wonderful, helpful community surrounding Fantasy Grounds!

You clearly understood everything i was trying to say. Thanks.

Yeah, veterans can teach us how they managed to work out and make things faster the ways it is CURRENTLY possible, or even solve some problems, but that does not mean there is no room for improvement. Newcomers like me need to listen to what you all have to teach, and god, i learn with you all a LOT. You guys clearly love being here.
Also, we (newcomers) can not just come and ask many changes to how FG works without brainstorming/discussing first to see if it is possible or if it will work, or even if there is a easier way to do it already available.
That what i was trying to say to Trenloe.

But we can not get "I do not want it" as a response. We need a why, and how you guys do it. Otherwise it sounds like some old guy yelling "Get out of my Lawn!" with his shotgun on his hand lol.

i will make an illustrated example on what i think it would be nice for FG to arrange its open screens, with screenshots and colored lines and post a suggestion on the wishlist.
hope you guys like it. If not, well, lets all ctrl+mouse everything, with a little patience maybe i will complain less with time every time i ave to manually do this.

do you guys know how to make quick GIFs? I want to use them as examples.

[Trenloe]

For those who have recently started using Fantasy Grounds - please be aware that it is constantly evolving.

Related to window size/position: due to user feedback (from various areas, including the wishlist), the main FG application now remembers the size and position when it is closed. And the window saver extension (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?38389-Window-Saver-Extension) allows the windows open at the end of a session to be re-opened. Both of these allow users to size and position the FG app and the windows within to be at the best position for their general session - and to open them at the exact position/size as when they exited the session.

So, you can setup your screen how you want it - position the main always open windows and then it's a case of doing a quick resize/re-position of new windows using the existing tools (which are pretty quick to use) to set their position for whenever that window is opened in future.

[LordEntrails]

Inspired by Trenloe's early post of suggestions, here are some I came up with;
- option to have all windows of a specific type or from a specific group open in the same window.
- As above but have tabs in the window to cycle through the various objects of that type
- option to drag window tabs out of the window to open a new window (like web browsers do).
- ability to define a default starting window height or width, by object type (i.e. images, stories, etc)

If people like these they can put them on the wishlist.

[Full Bleed]

Inspired by Trenloe's early post of suggestions, here are some I came up with;
- option to have all windows of a specific type or from a specific group open in the same window.
- As above but have tabs in the window to cycle through the various objects of that type
- option to drag window tabs out of the window to open a new window (like web browsers do).
- ability to define a default starting window height or width, by object type (i.e. images, stories, etc)

If people like these they can put them on the wishlist.
I'm for every one of these (especially the first 3)... and, frankly, either you crawled in my head while I wasn't looking or they're a suspiciously obvious way to manage a lot of windows and organize different types of assets. ;)

Further, being able to drag the asset windows out of the application and place them on other monitors would solve another one of FG's other glaring UI problems: Poor multi-monitor support.

[Targas]

Joining late intomthe screen management discussion....

I think functionality implemented on the Host/GM side to toggle shared screens being minimized/closed on the player‘s end and reopening them from the Host/GM would help. I don‘t think forcing them to be in certain places would help, especially if using different resolutions or even more than one display screen. I must admit I use 2 screens in GM mode for handling the screen sharing, and I like to have 2 screens in Player mode, too. Though I think it‘s most important in GM mode. Just my 2 cents...

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Joining late intomthe screen management discussion....

I think functionality implemented on the Host/GM side to toggle shared screens being minimized/closed on the player‘s end and reopening them from the Host/GM would help. I don‘t think forcing them to be in certain places would help, especially if using different resolutions or even more than one display screen. I must admit I use 2 screens in GM mode for handling the screen sharing, and I like to have 2 screens in Player mode, too. Though I think it‘s most important in GM mode. Just my 2 cents...

FORCING anything is not the way, i think on this point everyone agree. Everyone should still have 100% ability to manually resize anything. But being able to quickly organizing stuff using the tools on FG is right the way to go and saving a preset position just like we can do it currently with the dice would help already. Currently making maps Small size does not help much but to save a little time on making it fit your screen and resize it faster.

Should we start another thread to discuss it further?
Maybe we can see a consensus and put it in the wishlist after. That would be cool.

[Trenloe]

I think functionality implemented on the Host/GM side to toggle shared screens being minimized/closed on the player‘s end and reopening them from the Host/GM would help.
You can do that now - simply re-share the record, it will re-open (if it has been closed) on the player side.

[gaara6666]

Well, I want to ask the important questions about FGU. This is to Doug and John. Once you get this out in beta or at least during the kickstarter etc etc. Are you guys going to take a bit of a break for a week? I see the entire team on server for so long and work fatigue is a real thing even with stuff you are passionate about. Will there be some sort launch party where you guys can relax. Maybe a Discord or twitch stream thing for when it just comes out so people can see it and a oneshot can be done? I think thatd be really cool then a few days off.

[LordEntrails]

Well, I want to ask the important questions about FGU. This is to Doug and John. Once you get this out in beta or at least during the kickstarter etc etc. Are you guys going to take a bit of a break for a week? I see the entire team on server for so long and work fatigue is a real thing even with stuff you are passionate about. Will there be some sort launch party where you guys can relax. Maybe a Discord or twitch stream thing for when it just comes out so people can see it and a oneshot can be done? I think thatd be really cool then a few days off.
Actually, it would probably be wiser to take time off right before it's announced. I suspect once it's released their will be a huge increase in tech support, sales, company inquiries etc :)

[The High Druid]

Making better use of multiple screens would make a big difference. The fudge of stretching the window over the screens isn't terribly good when you have different sized monitors or different resolutions - really adds to the burden of having to resize everything as what fits on one screen probably doesn't on the second. Then there's the wasted space (can only use 1080 pixels of a 1200 height screen if the other screen is only 1080 high), the less than ideal appearance (I would much rather not have the windows frames visible, and whatever is filling the wasted space), and having to mouse over 2 screens to get from chat/modifiers to the library buttons.

[damned]

Making better use of multiple screens would make a big difference. The fudge of stretching the window over the screens isn't terribly good when you have different sized monitors or different resolutions - really adds to the burden of having to resize everything as what fits on one screen probably doesn't on the second. Then there's the wasted space (can only use 1080 pixels of a 1200 height screen if the other screen is only 1080 high), the less than ideal appearance (I would much rather not have the windows frames visible, and whatever is filling the wasted space), and having to mouse over 2 screens to get from chat/modifiers to the library buttons.

There is no guarantee of multi-monitor support in FGU.
The number of apps that really do multi-monitor support properly number in the thousands.
Ooooops - I meant thousandths of a single percentage point of the total number of apps...

[thebwt]

number in the thousands.
Ooooops - I meant thousandths of a single percentage point of the total number of apps...

... which figure do you think is higher?

[notrealdan]

Lots of apps handle multiple monitors just fine through the use of several windows. Maybe this would be too radical a change, but FG could someday ditch the extra desktop it introduces and put everything in actual windows. Then you can arrange things on several monitors however you wish. Sort of like how GIMP does it, is what I have in mind.

Just be careful not to roll your virtual dice into the Recycle Bin... ;)

[damned]

... which figure do you think is higher?

I did wonder that myself after I wrote it :)

GiMP is the only program that I use that actually supports multimonitor in any meaningful way.
And I use the single window option so that I dont keep losing my tools!

[Stormhound]

Lots of apps handle multiple monitors just fine through the use of several windows. Maybe this would be too radical a change, but FG could someday ditch the extra desktop it introduces and put everything in actual windows. Then you can arrange things on several monitors however you wish. Sort of like how GIMP does it, is what I have in mind.

Just be careful not to roll your virtual dice into the Recycle Bin... ;)

Obviously, if they went that route then we'd have a cool customizable dice tray to roll everything in, with the results copied to the chatbox... ;)

[gaara6666]

if we are throwing random features out there. a bubble in skills that force them to autoroll in the dice tower. would be great for people relying on trackpads or with limited room

[Trenloe]

if we are throwing random features out there...
Or you could throw them in the FG wishlist where they belong: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

:)

[gaara6666]

I know trenloe I was stealth bumping the thread so it didnt die lol

[Trenloe]

I know trenloe I was stealth bumping the thread so it didnt die lol
Hahaha! That's cool... :)

[gandhi39]

I'm the guy that made a suggestion for microsoft windows-like windows management and started the screen management discussion.

Not everyone likes windows 10 and it may even be impossible to achieve. I get that. Anyway, as a windows 10 user some things bother me a lot when I need to resize FG windows:

1. Sometimes it's hard to hit the right pixel/spot where you can actually click to resize each window. Not just on custom ruleset themes made by users, but on standard themes as well. The complex visual corners may be good looking, but the real clickable corners are sometimes hard to hit. You can always press control for another way to resize windows, but why the pixel mismatch?
2. Why can you click to resize only on the bottom/right corner/side? Why not the top-left ones?

I think it wouldnt hurt to have those stuff a bit more similar to windows 10.

Now more on advanced UI changing stuff (that may also be impossible):

I personally think it would be better if maps and handouts where handled differently, having different icons on the right side bar. Handouts could open the way they already do, opening on the center of the screen, just not requiring grid support and combat tracker integration. But maps should be special as they are a greater part of the game like the chat and combat tracker windows.

It would be great if maps were to open inside a special "Maps" window, with fixed position and dimensions predefined by you. Perhaps with scroll bars like the chat window (vertical AND horizontal). Each map would then open inside that window with tabs like the google chrome browser to toggle between them. Detaching a tab to make a new window, possibly outside the main FG window, would really be a plus.

[Trenloe]

1. Sometimes it's hard to hit the right pixel/spot where you can actually click to resize each window. Not just on custom ruleset themes made by users, but on standard themes as well. The complex visual corners may be good looking, but the real clickable corners are sometimes hard to hit. You can always press control for another way to resize windows, but why the pixel mismatch?
This is not a base issue with FG, but an issue with the coding of the window frame within a specific graphical element/theme. A lot of theme developers change the graphics for a window frame, but don't then check/change the resize hotspots for the new frame.

This is coded via the insideoffset parameter as part of framedef within the FG XML. Info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/refdoc/framedef.xcp So, it's totally do-able, it's just that each developer needs to be aware of this, test resizing when they change frames and adjust as required.


2. Why can you click to resize only on the bottom/right corner/side? Why not the top-left ones?
Good idea - please add to the wishlist: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[shadelon]

Am I the only one who likes FG the way it is? lol Windows 10 is fine and all, but I think that's beside the point really. The point isn't windows 10, but FG. I personally like FG's windows the way they are. It works for me. I think a lot people just don't know how to properly organise their windows lol. I recommend watching this video, it really helped me a lot.

https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Pr2v0f1d4&index=38&list=PLJGKJMlzabIm1vHqzq-axNlkbYuQyq8Bw&t=0s

Organise your windows however you want. But I don't think it's necessary to go and change FG entirely to look like GIMP or something. If you change it to that degree, then alot of the extensions, including themes, may become unusable, and they've already said they don't want to do that, right? They want to make sure all the work the community has done will still be compatible, right? I made my own theme extension for my game, and I really like it and like what I've done with it. I really don't want it to become unusable with Unity.

[Trenloe]

Am I the only one who likes FG the way it is? lol Windows 10 is fine and all, but I think that's beside the point really. The point isn't windows 10, but FG. I personally like FG's windows the way they are. It works for me. I think a lot people just don't know how to properly organise their windows lol.
I agree with this. It's easy to forget that there is a huge silent majority out there (many thousands of users) who get on and game with FG all the time. I know that only a small portion of those users visit the forums, and even less voice an opinion. But the ability for all users to be able to carry on and use FG as they do now is important. And I'm glad SmiteWorks are very aware of this.

I'm sure there's a wide range of how people use FG: how they position windows, how they open/close/minimize them, etc., etc.. There's no right or wrong way - go with what works for you. But I think most people will admit that having other options to aid with window organization within FG will be a good thing. Options are good, not wholesale changes or forced functionality, for various reasons: including backwards compatibility, current user familiarity, community extensions, functionality expectations, use if you want/don't use if you don't want, etc.. Don't force auto-sizing, auto-positioning, auto-maximising, auto-minimising, auto-whatever...

[Stormhound]

Agreed about options. One of the great strengths of the software is that people can use it differently, and people have taken advantage of that to create some really amazing things which only enhance the user base. I don't see SmiteWorks as the sort to bite the hand that so enthusiastically feeds them.

[celestian]

I agree with this. It's easy to forget that there is a huge silent majority out there (many thousands of users) who get on and game with FG all the time. I know that only a small portion of those users visit the forums, and even less voice an opinion. But the ability for all users to be able to carry on and use FG as they do now is important. And I'm glad SmiteWorks are very aware of this.


I like FG and will continue to use it but I am by no means under the illusion it couldn't be better. The window explosion in FG is very tedious to say the least. Having a more modern UI is going to do nothing but increase the user base. I've got one DM I play with that wont use FG because of it... and I offered to buy it for him.

The UI is in serious need of updating and I look forward to seeing what FGU unlocks for us to tweak ontop of that. The weakest part of FG is the map tools and UI. FGU I suspect (based on the pre-release vids and what I have seen of Carl's work) will resolve those issues. Adding that to the toolbox of a DM with the automation tools in FG will really go a long way to the lifespan of FG.

[shadelon]

I have similar complaints about Roll20 lol. I hate the look and feel of Roll20 so much I can't stand to even look at it. I honestly very much like and prefer FG's UI.

[Guoccamole]

The FG UI is not only in serious need of updating, but of adopting UI standards rather than blazing FG-custom (and therefore alien) trails. UI is about ease of understanding, and FG should be adopting standards not adhering to FG-only UI.

If FG wanted to add something now (before FGU), FG could add tabs to its windows, and that alone could help use screen real estate far more efficiently. But I don’t know if tabifying the UI would be low hanging enough to do before FGU.

[Andraax]

FG should be adopting standards not adhering to FG-only UI.

Well, heck, I wish Microsoft had stayed with the original UI. Creating something new is bad, dontcha know?
https://static.ibnlive.in.com/pix/ibnhome/01-ms-dos-310715.jpg

[shadelon]

I really could not disagree more. Like I said, I very much like and prefer the FG UI. I think it is great as is.

[Tovrin]

I really could not disagree more. Like I said, I very much like and prefer the FG UI. I think it is great as is.

Your kidding right? Windows all over the place. No ability for window management. You shouldn't need struggle finding things. It shouldn't slow down your game, but I find it regularly does.

They need to hire a qualified UX designer.

[Tovrin]

Well, heck, I wish Microsoft had stayed with the original UI. Creating something new is bad, dontcha know?
https://static.ibnlive.in.com/pix/ibnhome/01-ms-dos-310715.jpg

Wow. Following standards in UX design doesn't mean staying stuck in the past. Snarky responses are unhelpful and frankly insulting.

Frankly, that picture represents FG's current interface to me. Clunky and difficult to work with.

[Andraax]

Your kidding right? Windows all over the place. No ability for window management. You shouldn't need struggle finding things. It shouldn't slow down your game, but I find it regularly does.

Most of the time I don't need more than 3 or 4 windows open at a time. Doesn't slow me down at all.

[Kanbie]

Well, heck, I wish Microsoft had stayed with the original UI. Creating something new is bad, dontcha know?
https://static.ibnlive.in.com/pix/ibnhome/01-ms-dos-310715.jpg

If Fantasy grounds ran in a DOSbox with commands then people could run remote server Fantasy Grounds...

I'm going to go get my SSH running brb ;)

[dulux-oz]

This may have been mentioned in the past, but I think I'd really like to have the option of having all of the relevant NPC records that I need open for an encouter in a single tabbed frame, similar to how Notepad++ and PuttyManager do things.

Just my $0.02 worth :)

[shadelon]

Most of the time I don't need more than 3 or 4 windows open at a time. Doesn't slow me down at all.

Agreed. You really shouldn't have more than maybe 5 or 6 open at a time. And you CAN minimize windows too. Something some people seem to forget or don't know. Again I say, you just need to know how to properly organise your windows. Just because you don't have any sort of organisational skills at all, is no fault of the program. It's yours.

[mac40k]

Agreed. You really shouldn't have more than maybe 5 or 6 open at a time. And you CAN minimize windows too. Something some people seem to forget or don't know. Again I say, you just need to know how to properly organise your windows. Just because you don't have any sort of organisational skills at all, is no fault of the program. It's yours.

This guy has it right. FG already has the ability to minimize windows. And you can move the minimized token to any part of the screen you want. And when you hover the mouse over the token a pop up tells you what window it is. When you click on the token, the window opens back up in the same place it was before you minimized it. And when you minimize it again, the token goes back to the same place you placed it when you moved it to begin with. People just need to get in the habit of minimizing stuff and tucking the icons in an area of the screen you "reserve" for this and then just don't allow a window to cover up the minimized icons.

[JohnQPublic]

Agreed. You really shouldn't have more than maybe 5 or 6 open at a time. And you CAN minimize windows too. Something some people seem to forget or don't know. Again I say, you just need to know how to properly organise your windows. Just because you don't have any sort of organisational skills at all, is no fault of the program. It's yours.

At a bare minimum I have the following windows open. Usually more. It's 2018, if your computer/software can't handle having more than 5 or 6 windows open then the fault is of the program, not mine. And who are you to tell me the 'correct' way to play and organize? Maybe I can easily keep track of many many windows at a time. If you can't, then the fault is with you. If your oganization is different than mine, does that make your way 'better'? Just because it's the way that works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Windows that are always open:
combat tracker
party sheet
player version of the map
DM version of the map
Story note for the area in play
NPC stat block for each type of NPC/monster in the encounter
chat window

[notrealdan]

I don't think anyone's suggesting existing features or functionality be removed, only offering suggestions on improvements and new features/options. If you're happy with the way the FG UI works, I think you'll be able to continue operating in the future as you are today. I believe SmiteWorks has said a few times (paraphrasing from memory) that they want FGC's feature set to be the baseline for what is available in FGU upon launch.

But, the UI can certainly stand to have an update, and that will only become more important as time goes on. FG's current UI works well enough once you learn it and get used to it, but it's not intuitive to new users. Many common features are there, but are often hidden and/or don't operate like people are used to. In what other program do you need to find the minimize command in a right-click menu? It's very easy to lose windows behind other windows, so shouldn't there be a common location to manage all open windows (like a task bar)? :confused: FG has enough of a learning curve without the UI adding to that.

Personally, I'm most interested in FGU in the hopes the more modern engine will make the program more efficient. On my ~6 month old laptop, if I open more than a few windows in FG, it slows to a crawl and becomes quite hard to use. And that's with no clients connected, only a few modules open, minimal extensions, default theme, nothing exotic, etc. If that works better with FGU, any new features FGU opens the door to will be gravy!

And multi-monitor support! ;) Just the ability to pop-out/undock individual windows from the main FG interface would solve that nicely.

For all it's worts, FG is still the best at what it does and I'm just looking forward to it getting even better! (happy FG user since 2007)

[LordEntrails]

IMO, it's not about which way(s) are correct or incorrect. It's about ways in which one can use the software to it's most useful for the user. Often times it is best to use software to the best capabilities of the software. Not to try to use it in a manner that you want or think would be best if the software is not capable of that way.

I have this same discussion on other software programs, ones that cost $20000 USD per person, and ones in a similar market to FG like Campaign Cartographer. You can chose to fight the software because it doesn't "work like you want it to", or you "can learn to use it to it's best."

To paraphrase (badly); 'an interface may be perfect for some, and may work all, but it can never be perfect for all.'

Also, remember that redesigning the interface is NOT one of the stated or hinted-at objectives for FGU. So while it is great to give Smiteworks ideas for how the interface could be improved, don't expect any changes in the near future. And, speaking from experience, when the UI is overhauled, it will most likely be done over many versions and many years. And there is good reason for taking years to do a UI overhaul, one part is simple that you have to allow the current users to learn the new UI in bits and pieces. (While a whole sale change might be welcomed by those new to an application, it always alienates a very large percentage of existing users. You know, those customers who helped make you successful.)

[LordEntrails]

...
Personally, I'm most interested in FGU in the hopes the more modern engine will make the program more efficient. On my ~6 month old laptop, if I open more than a few windows in FG, it slows to a crawl and becomes quite hard to use. And that's with no clients connected, only a few modules open, minimal extensions, default theme, nothing exotic, etc. If that works better with FGU, any new features FGU opens the door to will be gravy!
...
This is indicative of a underlying problem with either your install or your content. I would first suspect this happens when you open multiple images? If so, it's probably because your image resolution is much too high. If that's not the case, I would suggest starting a new thread in the house of healing and we can help troubleshoot this and find the root cause.

[celestian]

This may have been mentioned in the past, but I think I'd really like to have the option of having all of the relevant NPC records that I need open for an encouter in a single tabbed frame, similar to how Notepad++ and PuttyManager do things.

Just my $0.02 worth :)

That would be a wonderful start. I'd also like to be able to move windows outside of the FG "desktop". Once we do get FGU I'll be really interested in seeing what new(?) ways we can manipulate windows (hopefully). Unity has some really interesting assets and methods of displaying menus that I hope they end up utilizing we can in turn use.

but at this point it's all just wishful thinking...

[notrealdan]

This is indicative of a underlying problem with either your install or your content. I would first suspect this happens when you open multiple images? If so, it's probably because your image resolution is much too high. If that's not the case, I would suggest starting a new thread in the house of healing and we can help troubleshoot this and find the root cause.

Thanks. I am careful to keep my images small, as recommended, and get the same problem even with FG-store purchased content. In this case, I don't think images are to blame (but having some open may make it more noticeable at least). I've tried it with fresh install, fresh campaign, no extensions, etc. and get the same results. It seems to happen when I have large story entries with a lot of text open, even with no images opened. This laptop performs surprisingly well in graphics intensive games (within reason), far more intensive than anything FG throws at it. My feeling is that the Intel 620 graphics chip in this laptop just isn't optimized for whatever graphics system the older engine in FGC is using, which is why I'm hopeful that FGU will help. I've tested the same content on my desktop with an older nVidia card and it doesn't skip a beat, but that computer's a very different animal and may be hiding the same symptoms by virtue of it's overall more powerful components. But the laptop fits on the game table (in-person play). :D

[Trenloe]

My feeling is that the Intel 620 graphics chip in this laptop just isn't optimized for whatever graphics system the older engine in FGC is using...
A few people have mentioned lag/choppy dice etc. with this specific chip. I don't think it plays well with DirectX v9 - which is what FGC uses. Hopefully it will be fine in FGU.

[celestian]

Some more FGU features displayed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoxEyNzFoio

[Zacchaeus]

Some more FGU features displayed.

Added to the FAQ

[shadelon]

IMO, it's not about which way(s) are correct or incorrect. It's about ways in which one can use the software to it's most useful for the user. Often times it is best to use software to the best capabilities of the software. Not to try to use it in a manner that you want or think would be best if the software is not capable of that way.

I have this same discussion on other software programs, ones that cost $20000 USD per person, and ones in a similar market to FG like Campaign Cartographer. You can chose to fight the software because it doesn't "work like you want it to", or you "can learn to use it to it's best."

To paraphrase (badly); 'an interface may be perfect for some, and may work all, but it can never be perfect for all.'

Also, remember that redesigning the interface is NOT one of the stated or hinted-at objectives for FGU. So while it is great to give Smiteworks ideas for how the interface could be improved, don't expect any changes in the near future. And, speaking from experience, when the UI is overhauled, it will most likely be done over many versions and many years. And there is good reason for taking years to do a UI overhaul, one part is simple that you have to allow the current users to learn the new UI in bits and pieces. (While a whole sale change might be welcomed by those new to an application, it always alienates a very large percentage of existing users. You know, those customers who helped make you successful.)

This guys says it best, and that was all I was really saying. I posted a video from DDM Dave that shows how he organises his windows, and that's the method I use and it works best for me. I really don't think you need all of those windows open at the same time and as has been said they CAN be minimized and the pogs moved around as you please. I'm just saying that I can organise my windows in a way that works for me. I don't want a full overhaul nor do I think it's necessary. I also hate the way GIMP is set up personally and do NOT want that for FG.

I'll also mention, I do this all on ONE monitor, and find I do not need more than one.

[notrealdan]

This guys says it best, and that was all I was really saying. I posted a video from DDM Dave that shows how he organises his windows, and that's the method I use and it works best for me. I really don't think you need all of those windows open at the same time and as has been said they CAN be minimized and the pogs moved around as you please. I'm just saying that I can organise my windows in a way that works for me. I don't want a full overhaul nor do I think it's necessary. I also hate the way GIMP is set up personally and do NOT want that for FG.

I'll also mention, I do this all on ONE monitor, and find I do not need more than one.

I'm very glad the current UI works well for you, and I'm sure many others. As I said, nobody's asking for a complete upheaval of the current UI or removal of any features, just additional options and easier, more familiar ways of doing things. Perhaps my mention of GIMP earlier was confusing. I don't think a change to a completely GIMP-like model is appropriate, but I wanted to demonstrate that having the windows not constrained to the main FG window would solve the multi-monitor need and make the UI generally more flexible. I used GIMP as an (imperfect) example to more easily illustrate what I was thinking. Sorry if that caused confusion.

It's worth noting that the #1 requested feature on the wishlist is multi-monitor support. While some don't need it, clearly many do, and I don't see how it existing would take anything away from anyone.
https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=54190

Cheers!

[LordEntrails]

It's worth noting that the #1 requested feature on the wishlist is multi-monitor support. While some don't need it, clearly many do, and I don't see how it existing would take anything away from anyone.
https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=54190
I believe it was Carl, though maybe John, that has elsewhere (or earlier in this thread) mentioned that the libraries for disconnected windows (like Gimp) in Unity are not very robust. And though Unity is reported to have that function, it's not mature enough for SW to use it. Hopefully that will change in the near future though.

I'm sure multiple monitor support is something that will be adopted as soon as SW thinks they can do so with a reasonable amount of effort and that's it's always near the top of their list.

[celestian]

I believe it was Carl, though maybe John, that has elsewhere (or earlier in this thread) mentioned that the libraries for disconnected windows (like Gimp) in Unity are not very robust. And though Unity is reported to have that function, it's not mature enough for SW to use it. Hopefully that will change in the near future though.


Honestly right now I'd be happy with just "window containment" a bit. So when I click on a story from the Story records list it doesn't open a new "story" window if one exists, it just opens that story into the story window already on the FG desktop. Maybe hold control while clicking the entry to open in another window. Same for NPCs or encounters/etc. I rarely if ever need more than one window of these items and if I do... control-click would be the solution.

I've actually been prodding around in the code tonight trying to see if I can do this but so far I've not found a final solution.

Yeah, I know about the <- and -> at the bottom of stories for the next/previous ones... thats kinda the idea I want but for any story I click on, not just the prev/next ones on THAT story.

[LordEntrails]

...
I've actually been prodding around in the code tonight trying to see if I can do this but so far I've not found a final solution....Ken posted something in the workshop? earlier today with something you might like...

[celestian]

Ken posted something in the workshop? earlier today with something you might like...

I just found that! Saved me figuring this out ;)

Here is the link for the Extension (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43672-Extension-Sticky-windows) for anyone else that might find it useful.

[shadzar]

Well, heck, I wish Microsoft had stayed with the original UI. Creating something new is bad, dontcha know?
https://static.ibnlive.in.com/pix/ibnhome/01-ms-dos-310715.jpg

Exactly, the current users of FG fear a change to the UI...

[Trenloe]

Exactly, the current users of FG fear a change to the UI...
I fear a HUGE change to the UI that invalidates so much hard work by community developers over the years or completely breaks the way I use FG at the tabletop.

Luckily, unlike some, SmiteWorks don't have the opinion that old users or other people's hard work should be ignored or thrown away.

[pindercarl]

The primary goals for FGU v1 are:
- Native PC, OSX, and Linux
- Improved networking with IPv6
- 64-bit executables
- Improved memory management
- Improved drawing and mapping tools
- Backwards compatibility
- Better support for non-English languages (I'll stop short of saying Unicode. There are currently 136,000 characters in Unicode.)

John and I have discussed other improvements, including better window management. We agree that the organization of minimized windows is clunky and should be updated. We have outlined the potential requirements to include faster access to minimized windows and easier identification of what the minimized windows are. No decisions have been reached regarding how this will ultimately be implemented. As has been mentioned previously, there is a mountain of official and community developed content and we do not intend to break the existing content. Where possible, we are including fallback cases so that FGU v1 content will still work in some capacity in FGC.

We read this thread and others (the Wishlist is not a black hole, we do regularly check it) with interest and the ideas presented are considered. As noted, no decisions have been reached regarding how window management will be improved. Specifically regarding independent child windows that can be moved outside of the application window, the architecture does not support this and will likely continue to not support it.

I humbly submit that Fantasy Grounds has better support for a rules systems and better integration of additional content (modules and sourcebooks) than any competing VTT. FGU v1 is intended to bring the rest of the features in line with the expectations of a modern VTT.

[celestian]

I humbly submit that Fantasy Grounds has better support for a rules systems and better integration of additional content (modules and sourcebooks) than any competing VTT. FGU v1 is intended to bring the rest of the features in line with the expectations of a modern VTT.

That will certainly help a LOT and look forward to the day ;) I agree 100% that FG has the best integrated content and automation. When mapping is brought up to similar levels folks wont have much reason to use anything else.

[notrealdan]

We read this thread and others (the Wishlist is not a black hole, we do regularly check it) with interest and the ideas presented are considered. As noted, no decisions have been reached regarding how window management will be improved. Specifically regarding independent child windows that can be moved outside of the application window, the architecture does not support this and will likely continue to not support it.

Thanks, Carl! Great info, and understood about the technical issues with implementing child windows, and the difficulty with implementing new features in general while also doing this massive move to a new engine. SmiteWorks does a wonderful job, especially considering the small team size. Everything concrete I've seen about FGU (info like your post, videos, etc.) has looked fantastic!

I just hope discussions about imagined new features (especially the more challenging ones) don't come across negatively to you and the other developers. That's not at all the attitude I have or intend to present, but written text is bad at conveying that. Speaking for myself, I just love this product so much, it's easy to get excited about the prospect of it getting even better! I hope these kinds of conversations throwing ideas around end up being a net positive for everyone and the product, and not too frustrating to the developers and moderators.

[RoleforFun]

I humbly submit that Fantasy Grounds has better support for a rules systems and better integration of additional content (modules and sourcebooks) than any competing VTT. FGU v1 is intended to bring the rest of the features in line with the expectations of a modern VTT.

I agree completely. I'm aware SW doesn't like to offer timelines and I agree for those reasons. That being said, is there any inkling of a general sense for an upcoming beta period or demo? As in, are we potentially months away, years away, completely unknown, etc.? I only ask because like everyone else, I'm greatly anticipating FGU's arrival and am on the edge of my seat with anticipation. Thanks for any info you may be able to share!

[Moon Wizard]

There are a few unknowns and portions of the design we need to work out still before we can begin to look at putting timelines on anything. A lot of things that seem like they should be easy or simple designs at first glance end up taking a lot more time than we would like to build the way we want. Once we feel comfortable with something people can actually use in a live game, we'll begin being more open about timelines and plans. I've found that building up excitement and missing expectations is worse than just waiting until things are ready (at least for an established product).

Regards,
JPG

[Stormhound]

First rule of software development, Moon...everything costs more and takes longer. ��

[RoleforFun]

There are a few unknowns and portions of the design we need to work out still before we can begin to look at putting timelines on anything. A lot of things that seem like they should be easy or simple designs at first glance end up taking a lot more time than we would like to build the way we want. Once we feel comfortable with something people can actually use in a live game, we'll begin being more open about timelines and plans. I've found that building up excitement and missing expectations is worse than just waiting until things are ready (at least for an established product).

Regards,
JPG

Thanks Moon Wizard, I appreciate the response. Keep up the good work gents!

[Moon Wizard]

I know! That's why I'm the one staying on top of setting expectations for FGU appropriately. A lot of people have a lot of ideas of what they would like to see, including our own team. ;)

Regards,
JPG

[kevdog45]

To many other companies have announced dates that were never met and really kind of spoiled there reputations with the community. I'm glad that you guys are not.

[LordEntrails]

I know! That's why I'm the one staying on top of setting expectations for FGU appropriately. A lot of people have a lot of ideas of what they would like to see, including our own team. ;)

Regards,
JPG
I'm pretty sure Doug has the bruises to prove it!

[notrealdan]

This is indicative of a underlying problem with either your install or your content. I would first suspect this happens when you open multiple images? If so, it's probably because your image resolution is much too high. If that's not the case, I would suggest starting a new thread in the house of healing and we can help troubleshoot this and find the root cause.

Here ya go!
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43743-Graphical-performance-hit-when-drawing-text

I did a little testing first and images don't seem to be the problem at all, but simply drawing text is!

I'm not expecting this to change until FGU anyways, but I figured it was still worth posting what I found. Maybe it'll help.

[Full Bleed]

As noted, no decisions have been reached regarding how window management will be improved. Specifically regarding independent child windows that can be moved outside of the application window, the architecture does not support this and will likely continue to not support it.
Understood.

That said, there are probably some creative ways around this.

For example, in this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43812-VTT-with-Separate-Combat-Tracker) the user is asking about being able to open a second instance of FG so they can, essentially, simulate a child window for the combat tracker. And while this can be done with a second Standard or Ultimate license, that's hardly a reasonable solution to the issue.

So, why not allow multiple "dependent" instances of FG to load that aren't "full" instances? By allowing special dependent instances focused on the most common persistent screen elements (Chat Window, Combat Tracker, Character Sheet, maybe a core tabed Map asset window etc.) people would be getting the functionality that they are asking for. Being able to do it within the existing app ("Spawn External Combat Tracker") would be perfect. So while Unity may not allow for native child windows, FG's client/server model could simulate the same functionality.

[damned]

Understood.

That said, there are probably some creative ways around this.

For example, in this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43812-VTT-with-Separate-Combat-Tracker) the user is asking about being able to open a second instance of FG so they can, essentially, simulate a child window for the combat tracker. And while this can be done with a second Standard or Ultimate license, that's hardly a reasonable solution to the issue.

So, why not allow multiple "dependent" instances of FG to load that aren't "full" instances? By allowing special dependent instances focused on the most common persistent screen elements (Chat Window, Combat Tracker, Character Sheet, maybe a core tabed Map asset window etc.) people would be getting the functionality that they are asking for. Being able to do it within the existing app ("Spawn External Combat Tracker") would be perfect. So while Unity may not allow for native child windows, FG's client/server model could simulate the same functionality.

It is an interesting idea.
You would lose a lot of functionality though - you cant drag actors from the CT onto the map if they are not in the same "application instance" for example.

[Full Bleed]

It is an interesting idea.
You would lose a lot of functionality though - you cant drag actors from the CT onto the map if they are not in the same "application instance" for example.

You may be right... but depending on the data-structure/asset being moved, there might be a way to use Unity's app-to-app drag-and-drop asset support (I don't know what its limitations are.)

Or, the dependent app could just use a slightly different way to move the assets (i.e. click a button and it transfers to a parent app staging point... or to the parent app window that has focus... or something else.)

[The High Druid]

For example, in this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43812-VTT-with-Separate-Combat-Tracker) the user is asking about being able to open a second instance of FG so they can, essentially, simulate a child window for the combat tracker. And while this can be done with a second Standard or Ultimate license, that's hardly a reasonable solution to the issue.

So, why not allow multiple "dependent" instances of FG to load that aren't "full" instances? By allowing special dependent instances focused on the most common persistent screen elements (Chat Window, Combat Tracker, Character Sheet, maybe a core tabed Map asset window etc.) people would be getting the functionality that they are asking for. Being able to do it within the existing app ("Spawn External Combat Tracker") would be perfect. So while Unity may not allow for native child windows, FG's client/server model could simulate the same functionality.

I've recently started doing something similar both as player and DM - and FG hasn't shouted at me to use a second license to do it, though I do have several, and the OneDrive/dropbox thread I read earlier suggests I should be using two separate installations. So, as a player I've been launching a second instance of the program on my secondary monitor and joining the same game, but not selecting a character. All the images that are shared to the group, in particular the main map, are kept open on that second instance, and the main screen can be used for the combat tracker my character sheet, any spell descriptions I want open etc. Found that makes things a lot easier to keep organised. As a DM I get the players view of the map, which I have also found very helpful, and if I select a character (can be a blank character) I can drop links on there for reference as well (story, DM maps, etc.).

What would be incredibly useful in this case is the ability to designate the second FG instance as an assistant DM, which I think others have brought up before, to have full access to the story, maps, npc's, and most especially the combat tracker.

[Full Bleed]

I've recently started doing something similar both as player and DM - and FG hasn't shouted at me to use a second license to do it, though I do have several, and the OneDrive/dropbox thread I read earlier suggests I should be using two separate installations. So, as a player I've been launching a second instance of the program on my secondary monitor and joining the same game, but not selecting a character. All the images that are shared to the group, in particular the main map, are kept open on that second instance, and the main screen can be used for the combat tracker my character sheet, any spell descriptions I want open etc. Found that makes things a lot easier to keep organised. As a DM I get the players view of the map, which I have also found very helpful, and if I select a character (can be a blank character) I can drop links on there for reference as well (story, DM maps, etc.).
This, again, strikes me as seeing users using FG in an unintended way to address (insofar as it can) a very common problem/criticism of the platform.

Which is why it would behoove FGU to learn from this trend and provide a more intentional and well-developed method to achieve the same (or better) utility without the potential side-effects of hammering a square peg into a round hole.



What would be incredibly useful in this case is the ability to designate the second FG instance as an assistant DM, which I think others have brought up before, to have full access to the story, maps, npc's, and most especially the combat tracker.
Whether they call it an "assistant", "dependent", "child", or something else entirely... multi-instances of FG on the same computer should certainly be explored in lieu of just accepting Unity's lack of multi-monitor support or architectural limitations. If people are improving their FG user experience going outside the intended use-model, then one can only imagine what intentional support for the method could provide.

[Trenloe]

I've recently started doing something similar both as player and DM - and FG hasn't shouted at me to use a second license to do it, though I do have several, and the OneDrive/dropbox thread I read earlier suggests I should be using two separate installations. So, as a player I've been launching a second instance of the program on my secondary monitor and joining the same game, but not selecting a character.
Do not do a second installation of FG on the same computer - you'll get issues updating and using data as you can only have one installation without constantly messing around with Windows registry settings. There shouldn't be a need to do two installs, just launch a second instance of FG and "Join Game" with a servername of localhost - which I'm guessing is what you're doing?

[celestian]

To many other companies have announced dates that were never met and really kind of spoiled there reputations with the community. I'm glad that you guys are not.

I like to see the updates like they've been doing (but more often!) just to see the progress. Giving tentative dates isn't a bad thing. You can't take the wailing and gnashing of teeth of a few squeaky wheels as "spoiling the community" with information that changes because of unexpected delays. As long as the updates explain what is going on and details on blockers most REASONABLE people are not going to make a big deal of it.

Not saying anything can be worse IMO because even your reasonable people will not know what is going on an eventually think it's just never coming.

[The High Druid]

Do not do a second installation of FG on the same computer - you'll get issues updating and using data as you can only have one installation without constantly messing around with Windows registry settings. There shouldn't be a need to do two installs, just launch a second instance of FG and "Join Game" with a servername of localhost - which I'm guessing is what you're doing?

Yep. Reading the One drive backup thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?35578-How-to-back-up-AppData-folder-to-OneDrive-automatically&p=308611&viewfull=1#post308611) made me think that having two instances of the program accessing the same data folder simultaneously might have the same effect as the syncing (possible data corruption), I guess that's not the case from your warning here. - Thank you.

[damned]

The GM session reads from a different set of files than then player session does - so the localhost session is using different files to the GM session. However running two localhost sessions would see both of those clients accessing the same files and could have unpredictable results.

[Tielc]

I know the devs are fully underway with this project and probably past the point of no return from a systems and architectural standpoint. But something to consider, is if building the UI from the ground up around an MVVM structure using WPF as the default GUI (supported on nearly every platform using Xamarin). This does allow multiple windows independent of the parent window as a possibility. It's not easy, and I've gotten lost spending hours on Pluralsight trying to wrap my head around it all. But it's there.

[JohnQPublic]

Personally, I don't care if all FGU does is duplicate the current operation with better memory management. I would rather see it released sooner and have features added over time.

[Oberoten]

Personally, I don't care if all FGU does is duplicate the current operation with better memory management. I would rather see it released sooner and have features added over time.


Voice of reason. I fully agree with you on this.
Love what it allready does and would’t want to change too much about it except sheer efficiency on it. More memory etc

[Batman13]

I agree. My biggest frustration with the current version other than memory issues is the menus system. I do not know about you, but I have to play on multiple monitors to see the battle mat, the combat tracker, the dice/text box, and the menues for the actual campaign. It take a while to get the hang of the UI. I wish there was a more streamlined interface for the DM when you enter battle mode.

[damned]

I dont want access to more memory... I would like to see it be better at memory management :)

[celestian]

I dont want access to more memory... I would like to see it be better at memory management :)

I'm gonna be one of those people.

Can't we have both? ;)

I've got some really sweet (huge) maps and icons I'd love to use.

I really missing being able to just just point my VTT to my entire folder of tokens so I can pick from any one of them when needed.

I also miss pretty maps... cause I am not going to chop them all up to fit in the narrow window suggested currently.

[damned]

I'm gonna be one of those people.

Can't we have both? ;)

I've got some really sweet (huge) maps and icons I'd love to use.

I really missing being able to just just point my VTT to my entire folder of tokens so I can pick from any one of them when needed.

I also miss pretty maps... cause I am not going to chop them all up to fit in the narrow window suggested currently.

I think its entirely possible (but I have no idea of the actual realities) that the Unity image management could see massive improvements in image handling capability and memory usage of those apps that 3GB ram might never be reached... :)
Of course I could just be completely off base!

The big issue with just throwing more memory at it is that you could have many more situations where lower spec computers can no longer participate.

I have no issue with being able to access jiggabytes of ram but Id prefer the situation where I dont need to!

[Asmo]

Personally, I don't care if all FGU does is duplicate the current operation with better memory management. I would rather see it released sooner and have features added over time.

Agreed!

[Wolfheart]

Agreed!

My biggest wish remains all about the dice. They are the most important for RPGs, and a VTT that doesn't replicate various dice systems remains only of use as a GM's screen for me.
I'm a broken record on this but it's been a while since I've mentioned it :p

* Allow us to choose which dice to see on the table (I want a heap of d10s and a few d6 to lie about to simulate the feeling of my game system)
* Add all the variants that are common in many RPGs like exploding dice, rolling against target numbers etc. (I know some of this may be in MoreCore, but this just begs to be implemented in the official product IMO)

2nd most important (to me) remains integrated videochat and music-streaming.

[icedern]

I would love to see the ability to use maps like this in FGU.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/8kc2g6/animated_dd_map_galleon_action_scenes_are_coming/

[Trenloe]

I would love to see the ability to use maps like this in FGU.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/8kc2g6/animated_dd_map_galleon_action_scenes_are_coming/
See from 0:25 in the first video linked here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43254-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-FAQ Maybe weather effects can be taken a step further?

[damned]

They have demo'd weather effects and water effects.
I see no reason why they wont be able to have many similar types of effects.

Maybe the future might have windmills with spinning blades, a weather vane that moves every now and again in the wind, waves that wash up on the shore...

[icedern]

I think these things would add a huge amount to the VTT. Also being able to use player made maps like this. I would love to support this guy that is making these types of maps, but if I can't use them in my VTT, no reason to do it.

[Valyar]

So many things are ahead of their time and so many are behind... :(

[lostsanityreturned]

Unity could handle it without too much trouble in theory. framed video playback shouldn't be too hard to handle.

But there are other issues and compatibility abysses that I wouldn't want to delve into as smiteworks, at least not in the short term.

[notrealdan]

In the case of the animated maps that are simply videos (like Dynamic Dungeons), Unity should be able to handle video playback pretty easily, but many these are around 200MB each, so the time to push these up to all clients would be a problem for many.

Still would be fantastic for local play!

[notrealdan]

In the case of the animated maps that are simply videos (like Dynamic Dungeons), Unity should be able to handle video playback pretty easily, but many these are around 200MB each, so the time to push these up to all clients would be a problem for many.

Still would be fantastic for local play!

(Just speculating here... I don't think any of this could be expected on FGU day-one, of course! But it's fun to think of new possibilities the new engine opens the door to.)

Maybe to solve the bandwidth issue, a static image (grabbed from the video) could be generated by the GM's instance, sent to clients, and used right away. Then while the video loads in the background, the encounter could go on like normal. Once each client has the video cached, it could seamlessly switch to the video version. People could even choose to have their client only receive the static image and ignore the video, if they (for whatever reason) don't want the video.

If sharing video assets like this were possible, I could also see some modules coming with short animations or "cut-scenes" as hand-outs.

[lostsanityreturned]

(Just speculating here... I don't think any of this could be expected on FGU day-one, of course! But it's fun to think of new possibilities the new engine opens the door to.)

Maybe to solve the bandwidth issue, a static image (grabbed from the video) could be generated by the GM's instance, sent to clients, and used right away. Then while the video loads in the background, the encounter could go on like normal. Once each client has the video cached, it could seamlessly switch to the video version. People could even choose to have their client only receive the static image and ignore the video, if they (for whatever reason) don't want the video.

If sharing video assets like this were possible, I could also see some modules coming with short animations or "cut-scenes" as hand-outs.

This is a long way off being reasonable given average connectivity and the power of computers using the program.

If they launch something cool that 3/4ths of the userbase cannot get a good experience with, it would be suicide to advertise that feature.

[Hector Trelane]

To add to the concepts here: how about adding triggers to certain spots on the map so that when an (N)PC hits it, certain effects take place: an audio file is played (via Dulux-Oz's Sound extension), or an animation is triggered (trap sets off; you startle a deer or a bird; the boar hidden in the underbrush rushes you and attacks...)

[Full Bleed]

This is a long way off being reasonable given average connectivity and the power of computers using the program.

If they launch something cool that 3/4ths of the userbase cannot get a good experience with, it would be suicide to advertise that feature.

Not following your "suicide" logic. You're saying that FGU can only pursue features that appeal to the lowest common denominator?

News flash: All of the major internet providers in the US are providing up to consumer level gigabit service in most major markets these days.

Heck, Verizon alone has 5.5 million FIOS subscribers with their slowest speeds being 50/50.

Comcast has 26 million internet customers and they've increased their internet speeds 17 times in 17 years. Most of them have *at least* 60mb service.

And I haven't even mentioned AT&T and Google customers...

Pushing 100-200mb assets wouldn't sweat any of those customers at all.


FG has been around for over 10 years now. And FGU will probably be around 10 years from now.

They needn't fear promoting optional high bandwidth features. That market is only going to continue to grow and, more importantly, anyone willing to spend a little more money for highspeed internet service right now is exactly the kind of customer they should be looking to get their hooks in.

[LordEntrails]

Not following your "suicide" logic. You're saying that FGU can only pursue features that appeal to the lowest common denominator?...

Pushing 100-200mb assets wouldn't sweat any of those customers at all.
...

They needn't fear promoting optional high bandwidth features. That market is only going to continue to grow and, more importantly, anyone willing to spend a little more money for highspeed internet service right now is exactly the kind of customer they should be looking to get their hooks in.

Its not about lowest common denominator.

Most of "those customer" are only a small percentage of users worldwide. FG is an application that is used worldwide.

Maybe Maybe not about promoting optional high bandwidth issues. Yes the market will grow.

But development of such features really isn't about the customer base, it's about available development resources. Their are so many things that would benefit the vast majority of the FG user's that reasonable would/could/should be developed before these flashy things. Sure, they would be cool to have, but there are several hundred ideas on the wishlist that would have greater benefits.

[notrealdan]

This is a long way off being reasonable given average connectivity and the power of computers using the program.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that nearly any computer in use today running Fantasy Grounds can also play videos, and that's what this feature comes down to. The bandwidth for this at the client side should be close to say, using YouTube, and only until the video is cached. Bandwidth would still be a problem for many at the ~200MB mark I mentioned before for sure, but there's also no reason the video files needs to be that large.

These video files (using Dynamic Dungeons for example. not trying to pick on them) are large and are probably optimized for local playback and quality at the expense of everything else. If this became a thing, I'm sure we'd see versions optimized for this, with much smaller file sizes. As a quick test, I just re-encoded a 184MB video from DD down to about 30MB and the quality is very close to the original to the naked eye. That's still not a small chunk of data to push up to each client, but it's closer to manageable and the original video creator could probably push it down smaller. DD also provides static image versions of the video maps, so maybe just fail back to those automatically if the performance is below a threshold?


If they launch something cool that 3/4ths of the userbase cannot get a good experience with, it would be suicide to advertise that feature.

As I said, I wouldn't expect this to be a day-one feature in FGU. If it ever came, it would certainly be down the road a while, and would of course be optional anyways.

As LordEntrails said, there are plenty of other things that will and should get development attention first.

[Nyghtmare]

I would suspect that the power of the computer is more of a bottleneck for anything than the bandwidth.

Hasn't that always been the case in gaming?

[notrealdan]

I would suspect that the power of the computer is more of a bottleneck for anything than the bandwidth.

Hasn't that always been the case in gaming?

But this is little more than video playback. It's not like the scene needs to be rendered in real-time, like in a video game. What computer can run Fantasy Grounds but not YouTube (or even both at the same time)? Granted, you have to account for things like grid overlay and future things like FoW, LoS, etc., but I don't think the difference between doing those with a still image and a video should be out of reach of any PC capable of running FG in the first place. I think things like water and weather effects that they've already shown off would be more intensive than this since they have to be done on the fly. In that case, I agree it would be more computing power vs bandwidth.

Still, I don't think either (compute power or bandwidth) are unsolvable problems.

[Trenloe]

In many places bandwidth is an unsolvable problem. That is, it can’t be increased with the current infrastructure, country limits, etc., etc..

[notrealdan]

In many places bandwidth is an unsolvable problem. That is, it can’t be increased with the current infrastructure, country limits, etc., etc..

Very true, it can't always be solved, but you can do things to work around the problem. For example, fall-back to a static image if available bandwidth is low. This could be automatic based on a threshold, or if you know your bandwidth is a problem (or metered, or you don't like video, or whatever) there could be a setting to always skip the video and just use a static image.

[Oberoten]

Consider though that any file being pushed out needs to be so simultaneously to N players. Say you have a 30mb file and six players and boom 180mb upstream. Assuming you have voicechat as well that swallows a 10mbit line quite thoroughly. Heck I have a 100mbit and Discord chokes when I pull up big images

[celestian]

Consider though that any file being pushed out needs to be so simultaneously to N players. Say you have a 30mb file and six players and boom 180mb upstream. Assuming you have voicechat as well that swallows a 10mbit line quite thoroughly. Heck I have a 100mbit and Discord chokes when I pull up big images

Sounds like a network issue. You shouldn't be choking up with 100m connection ;)

I used to have 20-50 meg maps in Maptools (yeah, huge... back then I wasn't worried about size cause maptools didn't complain) and while it did take 2-3 minutes for one player to get all the map (he is on a satelite setup) it wasn't obscenely long. Just having the map shared early on and have the player connect while he's grabbing a beer/coffee.

That said I doubt FG is concerned about huge files just yet ;) They'll keep the systems minimal until the system can deal with larger files and even then I'm sure their content will be a balance of quality and size. DMs however can do what they want and push out 1GB images if they like ;)

[Moon Wizard]

Just ask Zacchaeus what his network speeds are...
JPG

[Talyn]

Just ask Zacchaeus what his network speeds are...

Ouch! Shots fired! :p

[Oberoten]

OfC : I think one of the problems with the OLD architecture is that it uses http 1.1 as file transfer protocol.

- Obe

[pindercarl]

While it would be possible to play videos with the FGU framework, there are a number of things to consider. As has been highlighted, bandwidth is a big issue. It is impractical to transfer large video files to all of the clients. Streaming video from an external source is a possibility, but not a simple one. YouTube, for example, has updated the TOS of their API to be more restrictive and is likely to do so again in the future. The author of the dynamic maps is also unlikely to allow the maps that he sells to be uploaded to any publicly available sources. These are not necessarily concerns for the private user, but are definitely issues for a commercial product like Fantasy Grounds.

There are other factors to consider for streaming video, for example, synchronizing the clients. For looped backgrounds, e.g. the dynamic maps, this is less of a problem. However, once you open up the functionality of video images, users will find "new and clever" ways to use them. There are better and more efficient ways to achieve animated images in FGU. Having said that, there are no plans for this in v1 beyond the full-screen effects that have been demonstrated in some of the teaser videos.

[Nylanfs]

Also right now all the files are pushed sequentially IRC, not simultaneously. I don't believe it's been stated wether that can change with Unity.

[notrealdan]

The author of the dynamic maps is also unlikely to allow the maps that he sells to be uploaded to any publicly available sources. These are not necessarily concerns for the private user, but are definitely issues for a commercial product like Fantasy Grounds.

Sounds like a good opportunity for a license agreement between SW and some dynamic map creator for some premium module content. ;)

But, I totally understand that this isn't a planned feature or one we can expect anytime soon. There's plenty of lower-hanging fruit and higher priorities.

I play in-person mostly, and use FG as one of the tools for that. I'll probably use the dynamic map videos for some special encounters here and there, but continue to use normal images for most situations. When the players see the map start to move, they'll know it's time for a boss fight!

[LordEntrails]

...However, once you open up the functionality of video images, users will find "new and clever" ways to use them. ...
Huh! Imagine that *G*

[Talyn]

Huh! Imagine that *G*

Oh gawd, I can already imagine you acquiring the fghamster.com domain name... :ninja:

[LordEntrails]

Oh gawd, I can already imagine you acquiring the fghamster.com domain name... :ninja:
That's me with the goggles...
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/knd/images/1/16/H.A.M.S.T.E.R..jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130106185113

[RoleforFun]

Hey everybody! I was just renewing my anticipation for FGU by going through the YouTube Preview channel again. I absolutely love the new map tools being implemented. Does anyone know if the various images, tokens, weather effects, and pathways (all the graphic things being played around with in the demo video) are going to be included as part of FGU in sum, or are they going to be additional content purchased such as map and token packs are handled today? I can easily see it going both ways, as the next-gen tool is huge selling point and so it could come stocked with what is necessary to use it out the gate, but I could also see it as a way for FG to start going the path of micro-transactions in keeping with modern consumer and business models. I know sticker-shock for an Ultimate license and any content thereafter (Ultimate+D&D Complete for me, so I know the feeling) might be off-putting some customers who are accustomed to the free/micro model so prevalent nowadays. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

For reference, the videos I'm speaking of particularly are here: Impromptu Mapping - https://youtu.be/CoxEyNzFoio Images and Layer Tiles - https://youtu.be/xJBXbxfTwB4

[ddavison]

We want to include as much as possible.

We will probably have some of the included items be contingent upon the # of people who decide to upgrade as part of the Kickstarter project.

[RoleforFun]

We want to include as much as possible.

We will probably have some of the included items be contingent upon the # of people who decide to upgrade as part of the Kickstarter project.

Sounds fair enough to me. So, when and where can we sign up for the Kickstarter? ;)

[Guoccamole]

Doug, any idea if/when classic FG will ship with big memory? Is that still happening? Thx

[Trenloe]

Doug, any idea if/when classic FG will ship with big memory? Is that still happening? Thx
Check this post: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?44204-Test-Release-v3-3-6&p=392903&viewfull=1#post392903

[Guoccamole]

Trenloe: Ahhh, TY!

[gaara6666]

With steam summer sale and 2018 halfway over I am super excited to see what happens as the end of the summer. I know not to expect anything concrete but I can't help but be excited. Especially since I have found another monitor to use it on.

[Maxxgold]

Are we going to have to re buy all the books for the new version?

[LordEntrails]

Welcome to the forums.

No, you will not need to re-buy any DLC. If you have any further questions on FGU, I suggest you read the thread https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22089-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-engine and then if your question is not answered there post in that thread your new question.

[Maxxgold]

Sorry about that. It was clearly in the faq. Thank you for the info though.

I’m really wanting to purchase the Ultimate version, but I’m hung up on the fact that there is no solid information about the upgrade to the Unity version. If there was a definitive way to purchase the Ultimate package now, with an upgrade for the Unity version I would purchase today. If this has been discussed before, I apologize for not finding the information important to me anywhere. We all know that software development can take years, and if the discount we receive is tied to when we purchase Fantasy Grounds, that could lead to a purchase made now getting just a tiny discount if the Unity version isn’t released in the next year or two.

I’m new here, and I’m sure there are reasons behind decisions, but it would make sense to start selling the current Fantasy Grounds product with the incentive for the Unity version. That or put the Unity version on Kickstarter or somewhere we can support it.

[damned]

You are correct there is no definitive information yet.
The approach the team has taken is that they want to basically be ready to go (maybe barring a few last bugs) before dates and prices are announced.

It might be something like this:
If you had just bought the license in say the prev 3 months you would get a free bump straight away to Unity.
If you were 3-9 months you might get a big discount like 75% off.
9-18 months you might get a discount like 40% off.

If you have had a license for a long time like me you would likely need to buy the new license again.

All the DLC will upgrade for free.

You will be able to continue to use FG Classic (current platform) for some time but eventually it will stop being supported.

[LordEntrails]

...but I’m hung up on the fact that there is no solid information about the upgrade to the Unity version. If there was a definitive way to purchase the Ultimate package now, with an upgrade for the Unity version I would purchase today...
No problem.

Here's the way I look at it;
What I would say is why does it matter when Unity becomes available? If FGU is not available for 12 or 24 months, and I buy FG now, then I have all that time to play and enjoy my favorite RPGs on FG. If I don't buy FG now, then I loose out on playing my favorite RPGs on FG during that whole time.

Now, if FG today doesn't meet your needs today, that's one thing, but it does a whole lot of great things as it stands right now. So, even though I want FGU, it doesn't matter than much because to me, FG is still the best VTT for me.

But and use FG for what it does today, not what it will do tomorrow.

Also, as for worrying about loosing the FGU upgrade discount, I'm sure SW will be more than fair imo. They have always treated everyone here in a exceptionally customer focused manner. I see no reason to expect them to treat us any differently in the future.

[Maxxgold]

Thank you both for the replies. I feel like the fact that the DLC is a one time purchase will make up for the fact that I may have to spend some money to upgrade from FG to FG-Unity. Point taken about enjoying the product now!

[Valacar]

Watching the teaser clips reminds of Carl's work with Tabletop Connect....awesome stuff and thanks for plugging away at FGU.