Virtual servers

[powerwek23]

Now with microsoft starting to share server space for the new windows azure project, is there a way that fantasy grounds could be integrated to run on a virtual server.


In our campaign, our host keeps disconnecting almost every session, and he says he has cleared his ram, and it still crashes on him.

If we could run this on a virtual server, this would eliminate system requirements, and allow multiple gms on the same server, and upload speed would be eliminated because depending on the virtual server generated, you could just upgrade to a small or medium server and have no more bandwidth issues. Additionally, and I'm not sure this is occuring, most users have plenty of download connection, but a limited upload. So with this being hosted and having the flexiability to have more upload connection, this might prove to be less stressful on a workstation.

[ddavison]

That is definitely and interesting idea. I'd like to hear back any comments on how well it installed, worked, etc. if you end up giving it a try. Can you basically install whatever you want on those servers? How hard is it to configure ports, firewalls, etc.?

[JohnD]

I wouldn't be against something like this because it would be a boon to people who want to DM but are hampered by less than reliable connections.

However, this model seems to be pointing towards having to pay for the virtual server (fair enough... someone is providing the service and infrastructure... they should be compensated appropriately). Maybe it would result in everyone in the group pitching in a few $ each month to help defray the costs.

That said, I most certainly and absolutely wouldn't want to loose my current ability to host from my own machine/connection like I do now.

[Trenloe]

It's an interesting idea, I'd like to hear how it goes. It would help with situations where the GM sometimes disconnects and all players have to connect again - the GM would just have to connect to the Virtual Server again and the players would still be there. It would also help in terms of uploading content from the server to the players (when sharing).

For the current Fantasy Grounds architecture, the GM's connection would be something like a remote desktop that streams a shot of the actual screen and screen changes to the GM. If there are a few things changing on the screen this can take a bit of bandwidth to keep delays to a minimum - especially for those GMs (like me) who like to have large screen real estate.

For my job I do a lot of work remotely connecting to virtual machines and viewing their screens - it can be a slow process: click, wait for screen to update, click, wait for screen to update, etc., etc., and this is with corporate network connections - lots of bandwidth! For your average user I think this might be too slow to work with for a whole game session, but for GMs with slow upload speeds or flaky connections it could keep the game going longer and more reliably than they currently do - albeit still slowly from the GM's side.

As I said, I'd be interested to see how well it might work though...

[cpbs]

Tried running a basic server on Amazons AWS - EC2, virtual Microsoft server. Was able to install the program but when it tried to initialize, it gave me a directx error. I do not think basic virtual servers like this are able to use the directx functionality.

It is possible to use a dedicated server, then VPN into it, which would give you dedicated cores and gpu, instead of virtual ones. This might solve the issue.

Still reading the help files, to see if there is another way, but does not seem hopeful.

[Trenloe]

Tried running a basic server on Amazons AWS - EC2, virtual Microsoft server. Was able to install the program but when it tried to initialize, it gave me a directx error. I do not think basic virtual servers like this are able to use the directx functionality.

It is possible to use a dedicated server, then VPN into it, which would give you dedicated cores and gpu, instead of virtual ones. This might solve the issue.

Still reading the help files, to see if there is another way, but does not seem hopeful.

You'll need 3d support in the virtual graphics card. Using Oracle VirtualBox I had to enable their experimental 3d support that works about 80% of the time - areas of the client swap between showing correctly and just showing black. I was just using this to do some basic tests on an unlicensed client so didn't investigate further.

[Master]

It would be nice if FG wrote a dedicated server client (like you see with many MP games these days) so that it could easily be run on a wide variety of server hosts. That would solve this issue and open up thousands of hosting possibilities.

[cpbs]

That is definitely and interesting idea. I'd like to hear back any comments on how well it installed, worked, etc. if you end up giving it a try. Can you basically install whatever you want on those servers? How hard is it to configure ports, firewalls, etc.?

A little more information on your question. It was relatively easy to setup a Microsoft Server with Amazon. The one I picked was an On-Demand server, so it only charges you the times in which the server is running. The server I got had 1 virtual core, 3.75 GB of RAM, 410GB of expandable space, for $0.182 an hour. Granted if you let a server like that run for a long time, it would be very expensive. But If I only ran it, for 4-6 hours on game night, 2-4 times a month. It would be considerably cost effective.

At least with amazon, it was really easy to setup the server, basic walk through instructions are provided. That also allow sfor opening ports and setting security features. It also requires an encrypted key, which you generate during the setup, to obtain the administration password.

Once I was able to create the server, it auto started. Took about 15 min for the password to be generated for the serve then I logged in. Downloading items is a bit complicated but you do get a full Windows Server 2008 interface. Tried downloading a couple of items like Chrome web browser but it would not download. Also tried installing Directx but it also would not allow me to download. Internet Explorer was the default web browser and the Internet Security was set to High and could not be changed. So I was constantly having to set everything to approved websites list.

I was able to get to fantasy grounds really easy and download the program. Installing took about 15 min. But as soon as it tried to run, it did give me that directx error.

Now this is just the Amazon ones, I do not know if all virtual servers like this would have the same problem of not supporting directx.

[Trenloe]

Now this is just the Amazon ones, I do not know if all virtual servers like this would have the same problem of not supporting directx.

Windows 2008 Server comes with DirectX 10 installed, 2008 R2 with DirectX 11 installed.

To see if it is actually installed, try Windows Start - Run and type dxdiag and press return. This should display the DirectX diagnostic tool to see what is installed. Check the "Display" tab to see if Direct3D is available (under DirectX Features) - this is needed to run Fantasy Grounds, and may not be available through the virtual graphics card installed on the VM.

[Sigurd]

Virtualization shouldn't really be something Fantasy Grounds has to _do anything_ for. Clean code without bugs should make it a good candidate to run in a virtual machine without changing the client\server setup.

Personally, I doubt this would win you much as the DM would then have to remotely manage the server, adding another layer of complexity. So yes it would shift the bandwidth demands, while adding overhead of the DM as another user, but what would you save? An FG capable computer isn't very expensive anymore. All of the updates writing etc... etc... by the DM would have another wrinkle that could go wrong.

A more robust perhaps ambitious change to the program would be some sort of torrent layer where image\file uploads could be managed across the players and DM. That would let the already existing better bandwidths get used.