FGU: Functionality

[LordEntrails]

I don't disagree that new users often have difficulties learning all there is to learn about FG. But I'm also aware that most users (not just new ones) only absorb a tiny fraction of the info that is already presented for FG. It's one of the big challenges that Laerun and FG Academy try to help with. Perhaps more detail on the store pages would help, but it's also likely that a lot of users (who are less detail oriented than you) would either not bother reading or would be overwhelmed by more.

In a previous phase of my career I used to be a technical trainer. Teaching highly technical subjects to highly skilled people who were motivated. Even those folks could easily be overwhelmed

I'm not saying more info on the store pages isn't a good idea. I just don't know if it will help but for a few folks.

[Navigat0r]

Side note: I think that the amount of automation included in sold modules should be made much clearer. It seems natural to think that a paid module will expand functionality, while this is almost never the case. I know that now (well, it's been a while), but I was not happy when I first discovered it, and again I found that I was not the only one to be disappointed. The module description (at least for PFRPG) is a fairly generic blurb which really does not make this clear. I think that at a minimum the general description should include a line to the effect that the module does not add any new functionality. In fact, I think that the module description should specify which effect coding has been added, if any. In comparison, the description in the syrinscape module is very honest.

I would like to add my voice to Snupy's in this matter. IMO automation is one of the strong points of the Fantasy Grounds software. When researching VTTs online the out-of-box automation is one aspect that is frequently mentioned as a strength compared to FGU's competitors. Along with the "prep less, play more" tagline, I think it can create some expectations on the part of the customer that may or may not be realistic depending on the ruleset. In the case of 5e and PF2 both have quite good automation out of the box (learning to make use of it is another beast haha).

In my case, I decided to migrate from Roll20 after learning about the automation (the availability of official modules was another factor). So I took some of the items I got from a humble bundle and jumped in to using the software. With regards to the published modules, I was in fact able to "prep less, play more". The pre-placed enounters, ready to divide treasure bundles, shareable story entries and whatnot are great. However, the much-vaunted automation was not what I expected. Although the powerful FGU software is very /automateable/ in the case of my chosen ruleset (in this instance PFRPG, but i think many less popular rulesets will fit into this category) actually making use of the amazing capabilites of FGU requires a considerable amount of work on the GM's part to actually use.

To be clear, my post is not about FGU's ease of use (as I said before, that is another beast entirely). Of course, a tool as powerful as FGU is bound to be complicated. However, I agree with Snupy that making the state of automation clear would make for a better customer experience - especially when FGU has a strong reputation in that area. Hopefully that will translate to more people sticking with FGU when they have more realistic expectations and they know to what extent one of FGU's strongest selling points is implemented in their chosen game.

[MrDDT]

Throw my 2 cents in here, I'm not sure "MORE AUTOMATION" is what is needed, more likely ease of use. I think 2 things are the major issue why more are not coming to FGU before other VTTs (if they choose another VTT).

Ease of use.
Looks very old.


No other VTT comes close to the automation that FGU has and the things the OP is saying to have would mostly be moving away from TTRPG and more into just being close to a video game.

More automation you have the more limited scope of things you can say or do. FGU already has all those things you are asking to do, it's just not set up for you to 1 click and put it in.
I can set up traps and triggers. I can have attack rolls happen automatically when you get in range of something or trigger something. It's just not easy to set up with a simple click you need to think about it in a way of using effects and tools inside FGU.

[Nylanfs]

There were also the class effect xml imports that one could download that has the more common setups for that class on a sample char you could copy from. But I'm not sure where those are anymore.

[Griogre]

Unfortunately, most of them were lost

[deer_buster]

Throw my 2 cents in here, I'm not sure "MORE AUTOMATION" is what is needed, more likely ease of use. I think 2 things are the major issue why more are not coming to FGU before other VTTs (if they choose another VTT).

Ease of use.
Looks very old.


No other VTT comes close to the automation that FGU has and the things the OP is saying to have would mostly be moving away from TTRPG and more into just being close to a video game.

More automation you have the more limited scope of things you can say or do. FGU already has all those things you are asking to do, it's just not set up for you to 1 click and put it in.
I can set up traps and triggers. I can have attack rolls happen automatically when you get in range of something or trigger something. It's just not easy to set up with a simple click you need to think about it in a way of using effects and tools inside FGU.

As far as "Ease of use" goes... As a software developer of many, many years, I have come to the realization that developers are the WORST people to design things for others to use. We KNOW the intimate and intricate details on how the software we develop works, and so we are too close to the trees to see the forest. This is not a dig on any developers of Fantasy Grounds, but it is a generalization about all developers that, from my experience, has been 100% true with both myself and every other developer I have worked with.

Probably the best thing that Smiteworks could do, to fix "Ease of Use" and "Looks Very Old", would be to hire a competent UI/UX designer as well as put together a rotating UI/UX focus group of users that would get together with the UI/UX lead and discuss usability and design issues, suggestions, and feedback that really has nothing to do with features or rules or automation (per se) that can then be taken back to the developers to focus on for the next iterations.

[snupy]

Throw my 2 cents in here, I'm not sure "MORE AUTOMATION" is what is needed, more likely ease of use. I think 2 things are the major issue why more are not coming to FGU before other VTTs (if they choose another VTT).

Ease of use.
Looks very old.


No other VTT comes close to the automation that FGU has and the things the OP is saying to have would mostly be moving away from TTRPG and more into just being close to a video game.

More automation you have the more limited scope of things you can say or do. FGU already has all those things you are asking to do, it's just not set up for you to 1 click and put it in.
I can set up traps and triggers. I can have attack rolls happen automatically when you get in range of something or trigger something. It's just not easy to set up with a simple click you need to think about it in a way of using effects and tools inside FGU.

Not saying that looking old/ease of use are not priority areas, but they have more to do with the interface so I gave my perspective in the interface thread.

Automation capabilities out of the box depend on the ruleset, and as I wrote for PF1 there is little, maybe you use 5E. You cannot do all the things I listed - I don't think it would be possible to do the colour coded movement even with an extension with current API. I would not know myself, but it was commented to that effect by someone in another thread. Also I would be curious about how you would code say PFRPG automatic flanking detection and relative bonus with an effect, I don't think it's possible.

"No other VTT comes close to the automation that FGU has" Not sure about this. Are we talking out of the box or with extensions? And again I would imagine it depends on the ruleset. PF2E support in FoundryVTT is said to be top notch. FG has a strong reputation, and the effect coding is very powerful, but I am very suspicious of such a blanket statement.

Finally, not having to code effects, or even worse a full extension, surely contributes to ease of use.

[MrDDT]

Not saying that looking old/ease of use are not priority areas, but they have more to do with the interface so I gave my perspective in the interface thread.

Automation capabilities out of the box depend on the ruleset, and as I wrote for PF1 there is little, maybe you use 5E. You cannot do all the things I listed - I don't think it would be possible to do the colour coded movement even with an extension with current API. I would not know myself, but it was commented to that effect by someone in another thread. Also I would be curious about how you would code say PFRPG automatic flanking detection and relative bonus with an effect, I don't think it's possible.

"No other VTT comes close to the automation that FGU has" Not sure about this. Are we talking out of the box or with extensions? And again I would imagine it depends on the ruleset. PF2E support in FoundryVTT is said to be top notch. FG has a strong reputation, and the effect coding is very powerful, but I am very suspicious of such a blanket statement.

Finally, not having to code effects, or even worse a full extension, surely contributes to ease of use.

Out of the box or using exts/modules. Nothing is as good as FGU for automation.

Yes out of the box you can't do all the things you talking about wanting it to do, but with extensions currently out there you can.

I do think that FVTT is progressing very fast and it's catching up to what FGU can do, but I expect it's a ways off and FGU is still moving faster these last few years than it has before. So maybe we will see the changes.

I'm excited to see what FGU has to offer coming over this year, from what I'm seeing I expect it will really change the things we need in it. It's like they got some of the roadblocks out of the way to open the flood gates to do what is needed/asked.

Heck outside of FGU just getting the FORGE up and running was a huge step in allowing people to add into their games EXTs that most people using FGU never knew how to do before or would do.

For me why I see so many looking at FVTT before FGU is a major part of marketing. Roll20 and FVTT both have good marketing systems. If FGU overhauled it's UI to look better, and then also put out a marketing campaign, you would see a lot of heads turning to look at FGU as #2 VTT instead of #3, and it would eat up more of the market share of #1 VTT.

[snupy]

Yes out of the box you can't do all the things you talking about wanting it to do, but with extensions currently out there you can.

Ok, then could you please link extensions which replicate the behaviour of the dragruler foundry module thing linked in the first page, and which automate flanking for PFRPG? I'd really like to use them. Sorry if I sound slightly conflictual but I made specific points/asked for some source for your claims and you provided neither, simply restating the same things as facts.

I also noticed how FG is improving and I am pleased by that. Usually my posts are meant to be constructive criticism/observations, not complaints.

[Dudin]

Ok, then could you please link extensions which replicate the behaviour of the dragruler foundry module thing linked in the first page, and which automate flanking for PFRPG? I'd really like to use them. Sorry if I sound slightly conflictual but I made specific points/asked for some source for your claims and you provided neither, simply restating the same things as facts.

I also noticed how FG is improving and I am pleased by that. Usually my posts are meant to be constructive criticism/observations, not complaints.

I don't think anyone has a good way to quantitatively prove FGU has more automation than FVTT. I haven't used FVTT, but from what I have seen/read FGU has more automation out of the box.
Reading your post, you seem to be hanging whether FGU is more automated than FVTT on two specific additional functions, movement tracking (which doesn't exist on FGU) and PF1 flanking automation, which doesn't seem like a good benchmark to use. Even if FGU doesn't have the dragruler function (though I would like to see it on FGU) that doesn't mean it can't provide more automation overall. Flanking automation exists for 5E ruleset, but I am guessing no one has taken the time to write an extension that does it for PF1.