Feature request discussion: Improving in-app help

[JohnD]

I do have some friends who are hesitant to transition to VTT because they say the interfaces are cumbersome. Perhaps I'll be able to answer those objections by showing what FG already has to mitigate that. Thanks again for the info.

I keep hearing how difficult FG is to learn how to use. I have to think that some people aren't really all that interested in putting in the time needed to line themselves up for limitless hours of gaming goodness for years to come.

I recently started three new campaigns with a total of 26 players. Of those 26, fully 18 were people who were a) new to the ruleset I'm using, and b) completely new to FG as a software program.

Each of these people needed between 75 and 90 minutes of one-on-one time to be walked through how to create their character and then a highly contrived demo of:

- how to access what you need on your character sheet
- how to access the books, modules, etc... that the DM has shared out to players
- how to perform ability checks
- how to perform saving throws
- the difference between an open roll and being asked to use the Dice Tower
- how to make a skill check
- how to roll initiative
- how to cast spells (if applicable)
- how to add/subtract ad hoc modifiers to specific rolls as directed by the DM
- how to access, apply and use effects
- how, why and when to use the Party Sheet
- how to distribute treasure to/from your character via the Party Sheet
- how to move around a shared map both in and out of combat (with and without tokens being locked)
- how to resolve combat via a 2-4 round mock encounter with your completed character and a random meat puppet

By the end of the above, people completely new to FG know in excess of 80%, probably about 85% of what they need to know to participate in a game as a Player. Put them through two or three actual live game sessions and that increases to 90%+. Plus, any times after the above, people might have an idea of how to do whatever they're trying, but just can't remember where it is in FG or on their character sheet... they don't need more than one or two reminders to add the functionality to their knowledge base.

Its a bit of a fallacy IMO that everyone playing needs to know how to do everything. In my experience when I was starting out with FG, as long as someone playing knows how to get FG to accomplish whatever it is you're trying to do, that information gets passed along to the whole group organically and naturally through regular play. There's also nothing that mandates that you need to make use of 100% of FG's functionality from the start of session 1. Sure, it's great if you can manage it, but focus on starting with what you know, and look to add some extra functionality/feature every few game sessions... build your foundation and the add to it.

Now, it obviously helps tremendously if the person DMing has a passable functionality with FG. But even that isn't strictly speaking a game breaker.

When I started ~ 6 years ago with FG, I was coming off of around 12 years of running online games using NWN and NWN2. I gave those up because the time requirements for building content were simply prohibitive. I hadn't run a face-to-face pen/paper game for probably 15 years at that point. I had however, been gaming and DMing since 1979 or so; a rock solid base of experience to draw on.

I watched a few videos, observed a couple of games thanks to some kind players and their GM. I participated in a couple of games. I then sat down with FG on one monitor and one of the "how to" movies on another monitor. I walked myself through creating a short adventure, stopping the video when something new was completed, and then mimicked what the video showed me in FG. Sure I had to go back and watch a few parts more than once, but... no big deal.

I then put up a game in the calendar and was completely open that, while I had 3 decades of DM experience under my belt, I had no FG experience. To my surprise I quickly had five players. And it was off to gaming. Prior to the first session I watched videos on DMing in FG. I connected to myself via 'localhost' to see things from the player perspective as well (a big plus to know what your players are seeing and whether or not that matches what you wanted them to see). Walked myself through a few combats. The first couple of sessions were, well, they weren't smooth from my perspective, but session two went a hell of a lot smoother than one, and three went even better. One of those five players still plays in my games six years later.

Now, with players new to the ruleset I use and new to FG itself, after the interactive demo/introduction I do, I tell them to not worry about how to do something in the software. Just play your character... tell me (the DM) and your fellow players what it is you want to try and do; I'll provide gentle reminders of how to accomplish that if you seem at a loss. Everyone learns by listening to my instructions, following along themselves even though they aren't the ones making whatever attempt it is I'm discussing. The underlying methodology remains largely the same with FG.

With complete honesty, the above approach works and it isn't as onerous as some appear to make it out to be.

[ECDMuppet]

I keep hearing how difficult FG is to learn how to use. I have to think that some people aren't really all that interested in putting in the time needed to line themselves up for limitless hours of gaming goodness for years to come.

I recently started three new campaigns with a total of 26 players. Of those 26, fully 18 were people who were a) new to the ruleset I'm using, and b) completely new to FG as a software program.

Each of these people needed between 75 and 90 minutes of one-on-one time to be walked through how to create their character and then a highly contrived demo of:

- how to access what you need on your character sheet
- how to access the books, modules, etc... that the DM has shared out to players
- how to perform ability checks
- how to perform saving throws
- the difference between an open roll and being asked to use the Dice Tower
- how to make a skill check
- how to roll initiative
- how to cast spells (if applicable)
- how to add/subtract ad hoc modifiers to specific rolls as directed by the DM
- how to access, apply and use effects
- how, why and when to use the Party Sheet
- how to distribute treasure to/from your character via the Party Sheet
- how to move around a shared map both in and out of combat (with and without tokens being locked)
- how to resolve combat via a 2-4 round mock encounter with your completed character and a random meat puppet

By the end of the above, people completely new to FG know in excess of 80%, probably about 85% of what they need to know to participate in a game as a Player. Put them through two or three actual live game sessions and that increases to 90%+. Plus, any times after the above, people might have an idea of how to do whatever they're trying, but just can't remember where it is in FG or on their character sheet... they don't need more than one or two reminders to add the functionality to their knowledge base.

Its a bit of a fallacy IMO that everyone playing needs to know how to do everything. In my experience when I was starting out with FG, as long as someone playing knows how to get FG to accomplish whatever it is you're trying to do, that information gets passed along to the whole group organically and naturally through regular play. There's also nothing that mandates that you need to make use of 100% of FG's functionality from the start of session 1. Sure, it's great if you can manage it, but focus on starting with what you know, and look to add some extra functionality/feature every few game sessions... build your foundation and the add to it.

Now, it obviously helps tremendously if the person DMing has a passable functionality with FG. But even that isn't strictly speaking a game breaker.

When I started ~ 6 years ago with FG, I was coming off of around 12 years of running online games using NWN and NWN2. I gave those up because the time requirements for building content were simply prohibitive. I hadn't run a face-to-face pen/paper game for probably 15 years at that point. I had however, been gaming and DMing since 1979 or so; a rock solid base of experience to draw on.

I watched a few videos, observed a couple of games thanks to some kind players and their GM. I participated in a couple of games. I then sat down with FG on one monitor and one of the "how to" movies on another monitor. I walked myself through creating a short adventure, stopping the video when something new was completed, and then mimicked what the video showed me in FG. Sure I had to go back and watch a few parts more than once, but... no big deal.

I then put up a game in the calendar and was completely open that, while I had 3 decades of DM experience under my belt, I had no FG experience. To my surprise I quickly had five players. And it was off to gaming. Prior to the first session I watched videos on DMing in FG. I connected to myself via 'localhost' to see things from the player perspective as well (a big plus to know what your players are seeing and whether or not that matches what you wanted them to see). Walked myself through a few combats. The first couple of sessions were, well, they weren't smooth from my perspective, but session two went a hell of a lot smoother than one, and three went even better. One of those five players still plays in my games six years later.

Now, with players new to the ruleset I use and new to FG itself, after the interactive demo/introduction I do, I tell them to not worry about how to do something in the software. Just play your character... tell me (the DM) and your fellow players what it is you want to try and do; I'll provide gentle reminders of how to accomplish that if you seem at a loss. Everyone learns by listening to my instructions, following along themselves even though they aren't the ones making whatever attempt it is I'm discussing. The underlying methodology remains largely the same with FG.

With complete honesty, the above approach works and it isn't as onerous as some appear to make it out to be.

This is a fantastic explanation! Your story sounds a lot like what I'm going through.

A big part of my knowledge gap is that I'm way out of date on my knowledge base to begin with. 2E was the last rulebook I played with, and that was in high school about 23 years ago. So half of my challenge is learning the rules and mechanics of tabletop again at the same time I learn FG.

Hell, if any thing FG has made the process easier, because many of the tools actually explain the mechanics better than a rulebook does, at least from a "this is why you do this" kind of perspective. I can see a world where VTT is not only the preferred, it's the standard for tabletop because it combines the advantages of automation with the creativity and free form of table top role-playing.

So I think it's really just a matter of polish at this point. If a guided introduction to the interface can give the results you're talking about, how could the developers integrate the documentation into the interface in a way that that instruction provides it's self?

Even better, as powerful as FG is, and as Mich as it improves the experience (which looks very likely from my perspective), how can we tap the full potential to the point that it becomes easier for a brand new player to understand FG, than it is to understand the base RPG they are playing?

Because at that point, FG becomes the preferred mode of playing tabletop, even live.

And I think lots of people here who actually do use FG in their live sessions would already say the functionality is better for delivering content. The only question we have to answer is, how do we prove that to someone who is already adept at paper, or someone brand new who is just starting to make choices between pen and paper and VTT?

And again, these are all questions of how to push the boundaries of where we are, and reach the full potential of the software, not a complaint about what we have in any way whatsoever. I think with a little time and energy FG is going to be a good choice for my own needs, and for my group.

Great discussion!

[LordEntrails]

I'm going to go out on a limb a bit because of how crazy helpful Laerun and the others at FG College are and suggest you reach out to them and see if they would setup a special class just for you and your players. I bet someone over there would be willing to setup a two hour timeslot to get your players familiar with things. And probably another session to get you up to speed as well.

Now, go tell Laerun you heard he promised to do such! (Not really, but ask nice and I suspect they will do all they can to help out!)

[JohnD]

I'm going to go out on a limb a bit because of how crazy helpful Laerun and the others at FG College are and suggest you reach out to them and see if they would setup a special class just for you and your players. I bet someone over there would be willing to setup a two hour timeslot to get your players familiar with things. And probably another session to get you up to speed as well.

Now, go tell Laerun you heard he promised to do such! (Not really, but ask nice and I suspect they will do all they can to help out!)

Yeah this is a really good idea.