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September 17th, 2018, 04:22 #51
I'm going to snipe in here to say that it's not a Java issue. The same could be said for pointer control in C and C++. It's based on the proficiency of the programmer to manage the complexity of the references they're creating. In java if you have anything still referencing an object that is reachable, it's not removed from the heap. Can't blame lawn over growth if you don't mow your lawn properly [guy thinking meme here]
Javascript makes this worse as it ignores many compile time errors and gives the illusion of productivity when things are failing silently while producing the 'intended' result. Astral / Powered VTT is a glowing example of this. The UI they have is rich, but man does it have bugs that fail catastrophically, and it happens more often than Roll20's.
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September 17th, 2018, 05:27 #52
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It's pretty well known (or at least should be...) that several standard Java libraries contain memory leaks. So, regardless of how well a programmer manages memory, if the libraries are used, there is a chance that there is a memory leak.
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September 17th, 2018, 16:05 #53
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I often run two dozen or more tokens on a map. Recently I had a map with 40+ corpses that were being used as potential zombies and/or possession targets by a ghost; and that fight had 4 rat swarms that spawned giant rats under certain circumstances, plus a second undead, plus a 6-person party of PCs with one NPC. It was on a very big (but smaller than yours) map. Some players had lag but the fight went fine.
There's also an abundance of APIs we run in the background to help me manage the game, as the campaign we're running calls for swarm-type encounters quite frequently (both for story reasons and to help keep things a nice challenge for such a large party):
- Combat (turn) Tracker
- Group checks
- With the slow downs in performance we were already hitting, I also installed an API that generates and maps macros to player's character sheets to complete actions without needing to open the sheet itself and flip through various tabs. More below.
When I'm the only one in the session, this is usually only hitting me for about 1.1 - 1.3 GB of memory, but once the whole crew is in game I'm usually pushing 3 GB, while my players are usually hitting around 1.5 GB. Roll20 doesnot handle this behavior well, and the net result is that both myself and players are usually experiencing between 3 - 5+ seconds of lag time to perform simple activities, which really slows down gameplay.
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September 18th, 2018, 04:23 #54
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September 18th, 2018, 16:53 #55
The JVM is pretty tight in terms of GC. I worked with Java, C++, and C for years and I haven't had any leak issues with Java compared to C or C++, but I'd chalk that up to losing my pointers at times. The network libs may "leak" if you don't release the holds which is done purposely (servlet workers and keeping the connection alive, etc..) If the reference is alive, GC won't touch, and .... actually whatever, this is a whole other topic.
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September 18th, 2018, 19:11 #56
No garbage collector will save you from bad programmers.
The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.
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September 18th, 2018, 19:57 #57
We were having problems about 5 years ago with memory problems and then somebody ran a GC on our processes. It was interesting. https://www.jclarity.com/2013/07/30/...ter-generator/
Paul Grosse
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September 20th, 2018, 08:03 #58
Nice to see a friendly discussion about the relevant merits of both VTT's I think its interesting that Smiteworks allows this discussion while it would be quickly stamped on the Roll20 forums
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September 20th, 2018, 08:40 #59
I think that's an indication of the relevant confidence in each publishers' view of their product - one is confident to let their product stand on its merits, while the other doesn't feel that it can compete favorably in an "open and fair" comparison.
Just my $0.02 worth.Dulux-Oz
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September 20th, 2018, 18:06 #60
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