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September 23rd, 2021, 17:54 #1
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50 Fathoms - Scale/size mods not working?
The last few sessions we have noticed that the attack rolls no longer appear to be using the size/scale mods in melee. I did check under options, and under House Rules, the Size & Scale mod is set to Standard. Anyone know what I need to do to get the auto size/scale working again?
Thanks.
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September 24th, 2021, 13:40 #2
Given that the modules have not changed for a long while, this will not be a 50 Fathoms issue as such. (Assuming they used to work).
My players just defeated an army, had a dogfight with aliens, machine-gunned the zombies, stormed the tower, became Legendary and died heroically
Yours are still on combat round 6
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September 27th, 2021, 22:31 #3
Testing
Last edited by Lonewolf; September 27th, 2021 at 22:40.
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September 27th, 2021, 22:38 #4
They seem to working for me. Right now here is a quick and dirty test....Capuchin monkey vs Yellow Back Dinosaur.
The monkey is size -3 which gives Attack -4 and to make matters worse he gets Acrobat bonus to the final result. He is going to need it with a Parry of only 2 !
Yellow Back are Size 4 which gives Attack +2.
Add the scale modifiers and it is -6 to hit the monkey but +6 to hit the Yellow Back.
Screenshot 2021-09-27 223055.jpg
In the test the monkey can hit the Yellow Back using unskilled Fighting roll. Whilst the Yellow Back has a hard time eating the monkey. We are only looking at to hit rolls here. Damage is something else and despite hitting the monkey will struggle to even scratch it.
This is a quick and dirty test because there is no player connected. To be complete a Player connected vs NPC has to be tested as well.Last edited by Lonewolf; September 27th, 2021 at 22:49.
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September 27th, 2021, 23:54 #5
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Odd, I wonder what I have messed up then. Here is a screen shot of Curl (Very Small) attacking an octopon (normal size):
Curl 1.jpg Looks like the map distance is working and knows they are 1 pace apart. Curl's attack shows as "Melee" under attack info, as does the Octopons. What else should I be checking?
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September 28th, 2021, 02:56 #6
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@caballan
Remove the size and toughness effect under Very Small (Minor). That's tripping it up.
You don't need the size attribute because the "Very Small" keyword triggers size calculations and sets Size in CT.
You don't need the Toughness effect because it should be calculated into the creature's Toughness score on the character sheet.
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September 28th, 2021, 13:24 #7
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Mike, that worked.
We may need to have the Small hinderance updated because when you add it to a character sheet, it does put the [Size-1,Toughness-1] on there. I used that for the template last year when I originally made Curl to setup very small, and it did used to work. So not sure if the Small Hinderance will now run into issues or not. I ran into issues trying to test the small hinderance and then ran out of time to keep playing with it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes I got weird results. I need to add the small hinderance to a new character and see if maybe it is an issue of me changing the size to many times on curl.
While trying to get this to work, I noticed that it works best to first remove the character from the combat tracker and then change the size. Sometimes the size changes would not take effect if I had not done a remove/replace step. I don't think this is really a problem, just something to be aware of.
I started to check some of the other entries in the bestiary and noticed on cat they list it as "Size -3". Using that instead of Very Small also works. Since that is more clear in the long run on that the size is being used/factored, I change Curl to Size -3 instead. Both methods work, I just think the actual size list will be more clear to my players.
Thank you both for the responses!
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September 29th, 2021, 01:54 #8
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I'm glad that worked.
When you add an NPC to CT it puts a copy of that character into CT. That allows you to change stats for that specific individual (like beef up one of the enemies a little on the fly). Any changes like this won't affect the source character sheet. Which is nice when it's a monster from a published source and is locked. So if you change the size by clicking on the button in CT, it won't update the source character. Maybe this is what happened?
Let Ikael know about the Small hindrance, and he'll fix it pretty quickly.
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October 21st, 2021, 07:08 #9"Alright, you primitive screwheads, listen up: THIS... is my BOOMSTICK!" -- Ash Williams, Army of Darkness
Post your SavageWorlds ruleset feature requests and issue reports here!
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October 24th, 2021, 19:23 #10
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@Ikael: When the Small or Very Small hindrance was on the character sheet and the effect was on the line under the hindrance (as you see in his screenshot) the size was being ignored altogether.
It was a loophole scenario, not a normal use case. It involved size keywords tripping over effects.
I can't recreate this now.
This is the effect where the bug happens until the dev looks at it, then you suddenly can't reproduce it. So thanks for looking at it / fixing it!
If I encounter this again I will note the steps and tell you immediately.
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