Pathfinder 2e costs of rules

[Mitzter]

The pathfinder core and supplementary rules in FG really need to become cheaper if you want people to use it. All the rules are free through AON so the FG price should really be around the PDF price rather than the physical hardcover book price. The pocket editions make this even harder to justify as I can now get the core rules in the physical form for USD30 RRP but it costs double that on FG. Not to mention the APG.
I know you have to pay Paizo as per your agreement and the FG developers deserve their cut but no wonder why Foundry has taken the PF space.

The art may be worth the royalties for the bestiaries but I can't see the value for the core book or apg.

[Moon Wizard]

The pricing of DLC for FG is set by the publisher. While we make recommendations, the publisher ultimately decides.

Regards,
JPG

[Mitzter]

Hi Moon Wizard, interesting to know that Paizo is the one setting the prices.
I've purchased everything through FG so it is not really for me but given foundry and that I can get the ruleset, all the rule components of every supplementary book and all the automation for free there it does need to be looked at. I just can't see how PF through FG can stay competitive. Release all the rules for free through community modules??

[Zarestia]

Hi Moon Wizard, interesting to know that Paizo is the one setting the prices.
... given foundry and that I can get the ruleset, all the rule components of every supplementary book and all the automation for free there it does need to be looked at. Release all the rules for free through community modules??

Foundry itself did not create any PF2e content as far as I know. All of the rules and every book data in it were created by the community with (again afaik) no compensation.
You and anyone else is free to do the same for Fantasy Grounds. The people doing the conversion work for the SW store here are getting money off the sales.

[ShadeRaven]

That's essential the real cost for any of these community projects - Time.

I did the (SR) Bestiary to bridge the gap on the official release one, and did the (SR) Drag n Drop to handle spells and some other "automations/information" that I thought would benefit from the effort I put in. I recently returned to updating the Drag and Drop series to update it to newer needs (but had to step away for a couple of weeks recently). I was careful to observe the OGL and respectful about the purpose of both SmiteWorks and Paizo existences (they are businesses, after all, and if everything was free we wouldn't have their beautiful VTT or my favorite RPG to play with).

Honestly, though, it's really a complicated matter. If the Foundry simply offers up everything for free and everyone goes there - what long term impact will that have on a company like Paizo? Hopefully, it's minimal.

But the same opportunities that exist at the Foundry exist here, it's just that the Foundry doesn't offer those products as Purchases, too, so people see the Paizo APG here and a free OGL version there and think - those jerks! How dare they try to profit off of their published products!

"We" (the FG community) could just as easily do the same here, it's just a question of whether or not we should.

[Mitzter]

"We" (the FG community) could just as easily do the same here, it's just a question of whether or not we should.

I completely agree that both RPG and software developers should get paid for their work but Paizo has actually chosen this for their business model so Foundry shouldn't have any effect on them. Their current model is to make the rules free (AON) or their rule-based published products as cheap as possible (pdf, pocket editions) to get as many in the door, and to make money from continuous lore books, adventures and society scenarios (or at least that's what I think their model is). I think Paizo is actually starting to release society adventures on Foundry which will offer even more support for them.
The official Pathfinder rules content on FG (and Roll20 for that matter) stand out in the wrong way compared to Foundry. Not because they are charging for the rules (which is understandable) but because they are charging the hardcover RRP for the rules. It's just not competitive. FG has a lot going for it in PF and the Foundry model has all the issues associated with community-developed software, but I'm not sure the FG functionality is enough to justify hardcopy prices.

[stephan_]

As far as I know, only a few bounties have been so far released for Foundry (though they do have a community-sustained pdf to Foundry "converter" - volunteers that prep tables).

I have only dabbled with Foundry - so take it with a grain of salt - but what others have pointed out seems to be the main point - the non-core-VTT stuff depends on volunteers updating it (with the associated problems like updates breaking stuff, volunteers leaving, ...).

For what it's worth, it's hard to beat Trenloe's and ShadeRaven's automation.

I do agree that Foundry looks enticing, though as usual, there will not be a single solution for everyone. Some people will still prefer roll20's ease to get started, some Foundry's low costs (though note possible port forwarding/subscription issues), some FG's automation (obviously simplified, see here for an older but more comprehensive comparison).

On the business models, obviously there's not many of us that can even make educated guesses on what works and what doesn't - though I would imagine changing the business model after several years for a single publisher may not be too easy.

[ShadeRaven]

Yeah. Fair point.

One thing that is consistent with the PnP versions is that, as a group, only 1 person (or, rather, 1 account) needs to purchase material that all can benefit from. So I have 12 players across a few campaigns and owning all the books means that everyone owns all the books. Even in a standard campaign (1 GM, 4 players), if everyone is in it together, a $50 "book" is essentially a $10 investment for 5 people that will last a decade or more. As a pure bang for your entertainment buck, that's a pretty good deal.

I get it though. Free is still cheaper And Covid has certainly had many more of us looking for ways to keep expenditures down.

I honestly hope everyone finds success, in all endeavors related to the RPG industry. I do have my favorites, though, and want to see those continue to prosper.

[flashgordon]

Not because they are charging for the rules (which is understandable) but because they are charging the hardcover RRP for the rules.

I think the main point you are missing is that with the Paizo account synchronization, the FG Modules include the PDF and owning the PDF gives you a discount on the module. If they priced the modules the same as the pdf, then the actual cost of the module coversion would actually be zero, giving no value to the person converting it.

[Mitzter]

I think the main point you are missing is that with the Paizo account synchronization, the FG Modules include the PDF and owning the PDF gives you a discount on the module. If they priced the modules the same as the pdf, then the actual cost of the module coversion would actually be zero, giving no value to the person converting it.

Point taken but why the hardcover RRP and not, let's say, the pocket edition RRP?