[extension] Spell Tokens Extension

[nephranka]

So in general play, my group really only had one issue positioning a spell token once it was on the map. When they put out a spell token and then want to move it, now that vision is gone, they could not see where to move it to. I understand it was my request to take away vision through the token but the work around is to move it, click it (to get back map vision of your token), then move it again. You have to click back and forth between your token and the spell token in order to navigate it on the map. It may be that I need to leave the spell tokens with vision as this out weighs what advantage they may get from seeing other parts of the unexplored map.

The best solution would be not to take away the spell tokens vision and yours but simple don't change your vision from what is currently been seen by your token. I figure that is not possible given the FGU system.

We will continue to experiment with it.

[bratch9]

So in general play, my group really only had one issue positioning a spell token once it was on the map. When they put out a spell token and then want to move it, now that vision is gone, they could not see where to move it to. I understand it was my request to take away vision through the token but the work around is to move it, click it (to get back map vision of your token), then move it again. You have to click back and forth between your token and the spell token in order to navigate it on the map. It may be that I need to leave the spell tokens with vision as this out weighs what advantage they may get from seeing other parts of the unexplored map.

The best solution would be not to take away the spell tokens vision and yours but simple don't change your vision from what is currently been seen by your token. I figure that is not possible given the FGU system.

We will continue to experiment with it.

Not sure vision is going to do what you think... You will still have to toggle between token and player which seems to be you main issue, they are different tokens... so it would be the same if a player was looking after 2 characters in different parts of the map.. when one is selected you get its vision, then you have to go to neither selected to be able to see the both character token and then select the other. ( assuming they are not in line of sight of each other, in which case you could see them anyway.. )

I can make the spell tokens always visible and without vision for a player... That way everybody would always be able to see the spell token to select/move it if they were allowed ( party vision and movement enabled ), which would change the 'selection' to it but you would still have no vision if you had placed the spell token in an unknown area.. so you can move it but still dont know 'how' to move it to hit targets you dont know about type thing..

If you are placing a spell token in an unknown 'guess' location what would the DM want... For me I'd probably not allow a spell token to be placed on the map if a player say they want to cast a spell into an unknown area, if I did allow then it becomes a marker for the guess and maybe they dont get to see it until they move to be able to see that location. ( Maybe they selected inside a wall so spell failed. ) Its a very subjective thing, as a lot of the spell require you to have line of site for placement and movement. I know some dont but a lot of been able to use in an unknown location is subjective.

For example do you allow or not a mage hand to pass through a door to lift a bar that is holding it closed ? A dm might allow this without question, some might not even let it go though the door, some might ask exactly what part of the door do you guess the bar is at, some might class the mage had as 'blinded' when you player can not see it which would limit its ability to do a lot of things..

I'd probably allow it to pass through the door, and if the door had a key hole and you could tell from the side the player is on that the key is in place I'd just allow it to turn the key to unlock it. Its reasonable to assume in this sort of case, and not 'pissing' off the players. But if its a new door they have never seen the other side to and are guessing its a bar due to no key hole, I might be a little less giving.... maybe i've added a trap at the bottom which is not near the bar and the play says they 'try a bar at the bottom' and this sets off the trap.. instead of just letting they 'hit' an unknown bar with just 'mage hand lifts bar on other side' type thing. Its going to depend on the level of players and experience for me.. new players I might let them get away with it but hint as they get more experience I'd need more specific due to the lack of vision/information of what is on the other side...

Lets try it with no vision but player spell tokens are 'visible', so all players would be able to see the spell token in an unknown/black part of the map. Hence they could try and move it without having to unselect player token to see 'all tokens' for that player... but would then have to re-select the spell token to unselect it to maybe see the player token due to no vision to be able to re-select the player token..

I dont think we can get away without any extra clicks to deal with this, its just how FG does its stuff... ( Again to do it properly we need FG to make it a first class item outside the rule set, and I dont see that happening. )

[nephranka]

I agree that there are no easy answers and the solutions still require switching back and forth. All of your scenarios make sense and I think we both agree there.

Just one point to clarify, in many cases they would bring out the token into the known area of the map with foes and it would not be lined up with where they wanted it, so they would click it to move it a little amount and the map would go black (due to no vision with the token). This would make it hard to know where to leave it after the move. So when they click back they would see it still was not exactly where they wanted and the cycle would repeat until I cried uncle.


I think in a few sessions I will get them confrontable and then I will have a better sense. As we are working through it, I will report back anything else the arises. Thanks for the feedback.

[bratch9]

I agree that there are no easy answers and the solutions still require switching back and forth. All of your scenarios make sense and I think we both agree there.

Just one point to clarify, in many cases they would bring out the token into the known area of the map with foes and it would not be lined up with where they wanted it, so they would click it to move it a little amount and the map would go black (due to no vision with the token). This would make it hard to know where to leave it after the move. So when they click back they would see it still was not exactly where they wanted and the cycle would repeat until I cried uncle.


I think in a few sessions I will get them confrontable and then I will have a better sense. As we are working through it, I will report back anything else the arises. Thanks for the feedback.

Give v3.9.6 a go, I've change the vision side and visibility of the spell token. I've also added an option to have the spell token 'spawn' a light source in FGU which should also help you with the vision side etc..

[nephranka]

My test seems to be working well. I think the vision is doable. Once I get the group using it, I will have more info. Thanks!

[nephranka]

Just reporting back. My group found this new version works good. No real vision issues and they could move things around with no problems. Great work. We are still working through the stacking issues because sometimes there can be a lot under the main token making it hard for both me and them but I suspect it will take more practice. Thanks again.

[bratch9]

Just reporting back. My group found this new version works good. No real vision issues and they could move things around with no problems. Great work. We are still working through the stacking issues because sometimes there can be a lot under the main token making it hard for both me and them but I suspect it will take more practice. Thanks again.

Thanks for the update, stacking is always an going to be an issue but I hope that with that the default drags should do what you want most of the time... and the 'shift' + drag in the cases you want to drag the full stack. ( which is inverted when its a token+spell token on exact top of each other for the likes of spirit guardian.. )

If you find a specific layer that is causing a common issue that you want me to see if possible to work around, just drop some images/campaign/steps to reproduce (player/dm) etc.. Not sure I'll be able to fix it due to how FG stacks tokens. ( But with the sun setting on FG classic... maybe we can get the token stack adjusted a little for FG Unity.. )

-pete

[kevininrussia]

I’m hoping for an Image Layer stack that can be linked to a token. That would be the cleanest solution.

[bratch9]

I’m hoping for an Image Layer stack that can be linked to a token. That would be the cleanest solution.

Not that it helps but we can have bitmaps attached to tokens... which is how health bar/dot,efffect icons etc.. attach to the token. ( You dont get rotate ability but you can scale the graphic if I recall, so its possible to bitmap image a spell token into a token.. think more like adding a big effect sprite to a token. )

What 'situation' are you thinking about would be solved by an image layer stack linked to a token ? ( Most of the spell tokens end up away from a player token, so are you thinking a spell token a long way away from a player token or under the player token ? type thing.. )

Just trying to get an idea of what you are imagining so I can think about it.

[kevininrussia]

Not that it helps but we can have bitmaps attached to tokens... which is how health bar/dot,efffect icons etc.. attach to the token. ( You dont get rotate ability but you can scale the graphic if I recall, so its possible to bitmap image a spell token into a token.. think more like adding a big effect sprite to a token. )

What 'situation' are you thinking about would be solved by an image layer stack linked to a token ? ( Most of the spell tokens end up away from a player token, so are you thinking a spell token a long way away from a player token or under the player token ? type thing.. )

Just trying to get an idea of what you are imagining so I can think about it.

A lot of the "spell tokens" in my games are Auras so selection is an issue and the Aura should move with the player token. Also I could be wrong on this but when I add tokens the token is calculating vision so seems it is an unneeded calculation that adds to performance slowdown (more tokens you add the slower FGU gets).

Also Layers look nicer and its visibility takes into account LOS and Lighting.