General thoughts about the current ruleset?

[Jacob Lewis]

I have some general questions for anyone that actually uses the ruleset to run or play 4e games on FG. Assume you had the ability to create your own 4e ruleset for yourself. No content. No compatibility issues. Just create the ruleset for the 4e games you wanted to build and play.

1. Which of the current ruleset features or functions do you use the least, or ever? (Ex. I find the Skill Challenge sheet and tracker are a nice touch, but much too rigid to be useful except in the most straightforward (boring) cases.)

2. What features or functions do you wish were included in the ruleset? (Ex. Item rarity was a late game addition after Essentials, but never included (among other things) as part of the ruleset.)

3. Which current features or functions would you want to change or improve? (Ex. Character sheet layouts and functionality could be better. Its difficult to keep track or all the modifiers when the adjustments are mostly handled manually.)

4. What house rules would you like to include in the ruleset as an option? (Use 5e adv/dis rolls? Remove 1/2-level modifiers?)

Don't read too much into this. I'm only interested in a discussion, and getting other people's opinions and perspectives.

[gamerhawaii]

To me, the current ruleset is actually pretty amazing. And the fact that it is still supported is amazing as the player count has to be incredibly small. So anything I mention is really just being picky.


1. Which of the current ruleset features or functions do you use the least, or ever?
I agree I never used the Skill Challenge features. There may be other things of which I am unaware that I do not use.


2. What features or functions do you wish were included in the ruleset?
1) character builder, 2) Auras, 3) automatic updates to character for things like feats or items that adjust abilities or skills, 4) Fortune cards, 5) Something that shows all the modifiers on everything (i.e., why is my to-hit on this +22, 4E has a ton of modifiers), 6) totally out there and probably not reasonable at all, but a way to auto-upgrade "old" monsters to new stats. 7) Not a ruleset thing but ability to buy or download the 4E data in the open with permission, 8) better support for targeting for area effect spells, 9) better support for spells that leave a zone, 9) Monster knowledge functionality, 10) PC magic item wish lists


3. Which current features or functions would you want to change or improve?
The character sheet could be improved to show more info on bonuses and account for things like feats and backgrounds. Even though good, the power and monster stat blocks could be made more like the books. Almost all of the mods that you see from KJ's 4E Extensions would be nice to be native. Better way to build magic items (mainly weapons) since the ruleset doesn't really make non-magic items easily creatable (which you can then merge with magic items to make the appropriate magic item/weapon.)


4. What house rules would you like to include in the ruleset as an option?
None for me but I know one house rule I have heard a lot is double-damage/half-HP. There have been some house-rules on minions that might be nice.


Again, those are all minor things considering that the ruleset is awesome as it is (in my opinion anyway.)

[Jacob Lewis]

To me, the current ruleset is actually pretty amazing. And the fact that it is still supported is amazing as the player count has to be incredibly small. So anything I mention is really just being picky.
<snip>
Again, those are all minor things considering that the ruleset is awesome as it is (in my opinion anyway.)

Thanks for your input! This is not intended to be a complaint about the current ruleset, which is frankly a gift to all fans of this particular edition. It is so incredibly frustrating that the community has never been allowed to fully support 4th Edition the way every other has, whether through an open license or other legal options. I, for one, am most grateful that we still have a viable and generous framework being maintained for FG this far, and it is loaded with good stuff.

But 4e deserves better. And I know if the developers could provide it, they certainly would. And we would pay generously for their quality work and attention, if we had the option. All of our hands are tied here. But we can still dream. And that is what this topic is really about.

That being said, the 4e ruleset itself was created many years ago while 4e was still evolving and transforming. This is reflected in the way the ruleset was initially developed around outdated rules and designs, both within 4e and the FG engine. For example, themes and magic item rarity were never added to the ruleset when they became standard additions and options to the game itself. I realize nothing is ever "simple" to add properly into a ruleset, but there is an obvious line where you can see that anything after PHB3 was never updated. The ruleset has remained in stasis after the MM3 format updates, even though the game itself introduced more substantial changes for a short time.

I've spent a lot of time investigating the code and structure within the ruleset, learning what I can and trying to see what can be done. A lot of the program structure and naming conventions within the ruleset files are slowly being converted to new, modern standards, like recent UI and layout changes. I've also looked at the 5e ruleset to get a comparison, as well as an idea of what is possible. I've experimented wth a few things, like removing the outdated (and ugly) theme to allow the ruleset to utilize the beautiful updated ones. This allows it take advantage of the well-designed template layouts they have been developing, making the files more lightweight and easier to manage.

Other things I've accomplished so far: fixed a lot of misaligned assets and panels; fixed labels and display elements; incorporate the encounter XP extension following the 5e design; added sidebar options for Races, Classes, Skills, and Backgrounds (would need to work on those individual records to make them usable); removed Skill tab from Party Sheet, and revised the main page to include the Skill Group Check button there; introduced item rarity as a value for magic items; gave item panel ability to sort items by Type (Class in 4e: i.e. "Foot slot", "armor", etc), Rarity, and Level; and so on.

Generally speaking, I could make my own personal 4e ruleset for myself (call it something different, like "4ERe"vised) with changes like this. I woukd not get the benefit of any updates or improvements that happened, unless I made them myself. And I would need to share it with individuals who I wanted to play with using only modules or extensions that I may need to create or maintain myself. But what other option do I have unless I want to wait another decade for something that isn't likely to happen?

[gamerhawaii]

But what other option do I have

I cannot point you to the post, but I think I remember seeing a post from Moon Wizard saying that FG would probably be OK with a community developer taking over the 4E ruleset. You could ask about that.

[superteddy57]

You can always reach out by email to [email protected] with inquires on any development requests.

[Jiminimonka]

Thanks for your input! This is not intended to be a complaint about the current ruleset, which is frankly a gift to all fans of this particular edition. It is so incredibly frustrating that the community has never been allowed to fully support 4th Edition the way every other has, whether through an open license or other legal options. I, for one, am most grateful that we still have a viable and generous framework being maintained for FG this far, and it is loaded with good stuff.

But 4e deserves better. And I know if the developers could provide it, they certainly would. And we would pay generously for their quality work and attention, if we had the option. All of our hands are tied here. But we can still dream. And that is what this topic is really about.

That being said, the 4e ruleset itself was created many years ago while 4e was still evolving and transforming. This is reflected in the way the ruleset was initially developed around outdated rules and designs, both within 4e and the FG engine. For example, themes and magic item rarity were never added to the ruleset when they became standard additions and options to the game itself. I realize nothing is ever "simple" to add properly into a ruleset, but there is an obvious line where you can see that anything after PHB3 was never updated. The ruleset has remained in stasis after the MM3 format updates, even though the game itself introduced more substantial changes for a short time.

I've spent a lot of time investigating the code and structure within the ruleset, learning what I can and trying to see what can be done. A lot of the program structure and naming conventions within the ruleset files are slowly being converted to new, modern standards, like recent UI and layout changes. I've also looked at the 5e ruleset to get a comparison, as well as an idea of what is possible. I've experimented wth a few things, like removing the outdated (and ugly) theme to allow the ruleset to utilize the beautiful updated ones. This allows it take advantage of the well-designed template layouts they have been developing, making the files more lightweight and easier to manage.

Other things I've accomplished so far: fixed a lot of misaligned assets and panels; fixed labels and display elements; incorporate the encounter XP extension following the 5e design; added sidebar options for Races, Classes, Skills, and Backgrounds (would need to work on those individual records to make them usable); removed Skill tab from Party Sheet, and revised the main page to include the Skill Group Check button there; introduced item rarity as a value for magic items; gave item panel ability to sort items by Type (Class in 4e: i.e. "Foot slot", "armor", etc), Rarity, and Level; and so on.

Generally speaking, I could make my own personal 4e ruleset for myself (call it something different, like "4ERe"vised) with changes like this. I woukd not get the benefit of any updates or improvements that happened, unless I made them myself. And I would need to share it with individuals who I wanted to play with using only modules or extensions that I may need to create or maintain myself. But what other option do I have unless I want to wait another decade for something that isn't likely to happen?

Share your code and optimizations as an extensi
on/mod

[Jacob Lewis]

4. What house rules would you like to include in the ruleset as an option?
None for me but I know one house rule I have heard a lot is double-damage/half-HP. There have been some house-rules on minions that might be nice.

I forgot to mention. The ruleset does have a few options for house rules like this. Go to the options sidebar tab under Tool, then scroll down towards the bottom where you'll find House Rules. From here, you can:

Decrease standard HP: [3/4, 2/3, or 1/2]
Increase Minion HP: [Level + 5]
Increase standard damage: [+1/2 creature level]
Reduce Defenses: [-2 all]

FG 4e House Rules.png

[SieferSeesSomething]

I have some general questions for anyone that actually uses the ruleset to run or play 4e games on FG. Assume you had the ability to create your own 4e ruleset for yourself. No content. No compatibility issues. Just create the ruleset for the 4e games you wanted to build and play.

1. Which of the current ruleset features or functions do you use the least, or ever? (Ex. I find the Skill Challenge sheet and tracker are a nice touch, but much too rigid to be useful except in the most straightforward (boring) cases.)

2. What features or functions do you wish were included in the ruleset? (Ex. Item rarity was a late game addition after Essentials, but never included (among other things) as part of the ruleset.)

3. Which current features or functions would you want to change or improve? (Ex. Character sheet layouts and functionality could be better. Its difficult to keep track or all the modifiers when the adjustments are mostly handled manually.)

4. What house rules would you like to include in the ruleset as an option? (Use 5e adv/dis rolls? Remove 1/2-level modifiers?)

Don't read too much into this. I'm only interested in a discussion, and getting other people's opinions and perspectives.

1.) Pass

2.) There was an extension I wished for previously that shows when a player's modifier helped someone hit (so like someone hit by 1 or 2, and an ally gave them a +2 modifier, there would be a little message that they helped. Foundry has a cool extension like that for PF2e.) A character builder would be cool, but I use the original one and made a converter from that to FG, so don't need it much anymore. But maybe not everyone has access to that old one, so I could see it being useful to them. Also more sidebar records but I've been working on an extension for that. Item rarity would be cool.

3.) I'd love more detailed characters sheets with room for all the modifiers characters could have. Maybe two different versions of it, so you can see everything and a version that's more truncated.

4.) Removing all 1/2 level bonuses sounds cool. 5e advantage. Is there already a house rule for inherent bonuses in the ruleset? I also found a house rule once that combined the 1/2 level bonus and the inherent enhancement bonus and something else into one bonus, like the proficiency bonus in 5e.

[Starwolf]

2. What features or functions do you wish were included in the ruleset?

Auras and Zones. Make sure it stays usable by many of the extensions here. If that is difficult put in functions that covers maybe the most popular extensions found on here that is 4e usable.