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  1. #1
    Morenu's Avatar
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    18 WIS will save vs 17 WIS

    OK, I feel as though I am losing it. I assume the following is correct:

    • Will save with an 18 wisdom gets +4 bonus
    • Will save with an 17 wisdom gets +3 bonus
    • Will save with an 16 wisdom gets +3 bonus
    • Will save with an 15 wisdom gets +2 bonus
      AND
    • WIS:-1 effect will remove 1 point from the players wisdom score, adjusting the modifier bonus as above (18 -1=17, bonus of +4 reduces to +3)


    IF I am correct there then I believe the following pictures show it as not working correctly.

    Example 1 with a bunch of extensions. PC has 18 WIS, and a total WILL save of +8 from wisdom and level.
    Wisdom -1 will save.png
    The first save has no negative wisdom effect, (so an 18 wis) +8 works normal.
    effect of -1 wis added
    roll save and FG adds [EFFECTS] by the will save but no -1. so it sees wisdom -1 so assume wisdom 17 but the +4 bonus still applied.
    I tried wis -2 and the [EFFECT -1] appeared for a wisdom 16 which would be correct (missed it in the screen shot).

    Example 2 NO EXTENSIONS PC has 18 WIS and no other Will modifiers so Will save +4
    -1 wisdom (18) will save no ext.png
    Roll 1 - no WIS deduction - d20 +4 GOOD
    add WIS:-1 (now wisdom of 17)
    Roll 2 - WIS -1 = d20 +4 WRONG
    remove -1 add WIS -2 (now wisdom of 16)
    Roll 3 - WIS -2 = d20 +3 GOOD
    add WIS:-1 effect for a total -3 (now wisdom of 15)
    Roll 4 - WIS -3 = d20 +3 WRONG

    Example 3 NO EXTENSIONS only change was to make the PC start with a 17 Wisdom so base Will save is +3
    -1 wisdom (17) will save no ext.png
    Roll 1 - no WIS deduction - d20 +3 GOOD
    add WIS:-1 (now wisdom of 16)
    Roll 2 - WIS -1 = d20 +3 GOOD
    remove -1 add WIS -2 (now wisdom of 15)
    Roll 3 - WIS -2 = d20 +2 GOOD
    Last edited by Morenu; September 7th, 2024 at 04:17.
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  2. #2
    I didn't look through all your screenshots and descriptions: But do you play PF1 or 3.5E? If PF1 (which seems to be the case given the forum), then that might be what you see. PF1 differs between permanent and temporary bonuses in the ruleset (someone might have a link to some wiki about that). That is permanent bonuses are as you expect, however, temporary bonuses (and maluses) are not directly added to the ability to check the modifier. Instead, only every even number affects the ability. Thus, for example WIS: +/- 1 doesn't do anything, but WIS: +/-2 does, WIS: +/-3 behaves like WIS: +/-2 and so on.

    I think PF1 changed that system so that it may be easier for players to track their buffs while playing, but with a VTT this is not really needed anymore. (but the rules are not written for a VTT)

    Does this clarify it?
    Last edited by Kelrugem; September 7th, 2024 at 04:54.

  3. #3
    Here is a link: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-abil...bility-scores/ (under Ability Score Bonuses)

    "For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability."

    A subtle wording and many do not know that; you are not the first who was wondering about that

  4. #4
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    Huh. I did not know that. And i am in pf1e. Also, i will say… math is math damnit. 18-1 is 17. Lol

    Ok so working correctly, i just need to ignore the mathing aint mathing thing. Got it. ��
    My First Mod PFRPG - Feats Extended, focusing on PF1e Feats and Racial Traits automation. It is open to community assistance** accidentally deleted, If anyone grabbed a copy, PLEASE let me know**. Here is the forum Link.

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    PF1E Coding Effects - Spreadsheet

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Morenu View Post
    Huh. I did not know that. And i am in pf1e. Also, i will say… math is math damnit. 18-1 is 17. Lol

    Ok so working correctly, i just need to ignore the mathing aint mathing thing. Got it. 
    Yeah, temporary bonuses are not really a bonus directly to the ability, it is a separate kind of bonus It is even more complicated: the first 24 hours you wear an item, its bonus counts as temporary before it turns to a typical permanent bonus

    It is really just meant as a simplification at a table: Just count how many buffs you have and add a modifier per +/-2 In that way players do not have to remember the modifier bonus associated to certain ability values; at least this was the idea behind that rule, I think

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