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  1. #1
    jthm0138
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    Know Your Rights: Copyright Laws

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    Last edited by jthm0138; March 14th, 2008 at 00:41.

  2. #2
    Trademark protection is the (or one of the) other side(s) of the coin. And from Fantasy Grounds's perspective, it is the one that makes things less than clear. I have found THIS page an accessible introduction to trademark issues. While it is not legal text, and it is the view of its author, I have found that it agrees with most other texts on trademarks, i.e. it seems to be valid. I am not a lawyer nor a US citizen, thus my knowledge on the US jurisdiction and legal system is limited; I do not, for instance, know how strong argument is freedom of speech, as in the First Amendment, in a trademark dispute.

    To compare copyright and trademark in Fantasy Grounds and www.fantasygrounds.com context, here are a few points (open to discussion):
    • taking someone's text (author's expression) is directly against copyright law
    • making a character sheet or system mechanics for system X is not against copyright law
    • it is all right to say "with this product you can play the world's most popular RPG"
    • you can't name anything you produce after a trademarked name (trademark dilution)
    • nominative fair use and non-commercial use might both limit the trademark protection in most of the cases of community creations, where copyrights have not been violated
    • the d20 license allows the use of the d20 logo and the use of the System Reference Document (SRD) is governed by the Open Gaming License. The explicit licenses and the fulfilling of the license conditions allow for the use of SRD and the d20 logo, even though they are protected by copyright and trademark, respectively
    I'd also like to point out that, while community members cannot protect other parties' trademarks, they can try to help the community maintain a positive and respectful reputation towards trademark holders.

    I wish that next someone here would write a commentary on the relevancy of patents for games and game mechanics. Of course, patent rights are not automatically generated and are in other ways much clearer as well.

  3. #3
    jthm0138
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    Last edited by jthm0138; March 13th, 2008 at 23:47.

  4. #4
    Stuart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged
    I wish that next someone here would write a commentary on the relevancy of patents for games and game mechanics. Of course, patent rights are not automatically generated and are in other ways much clearer as well.
    Ged, I think the issue has been covered by Thore in past posts along with commentaries by some of the lawyers that solicit ( ) the boards elsewhere. The "issue" of patents/copyright/OGL etc. etc. tends to rear its head every now and then so perhaps a Sticky put together that covers what we probably already know is a sensible idea (as you intimate) ?

    jthm0138's post is a start ... I think ? A definitive "Do's and Don'ts" is probably overdue but, I think 99% of the FG Community know when one of us has done something naughty ? Certainly, there seem to be less posts about piracy, copyright/OGL infringements and so on ... maybe everybody is to busy gaming to actually care !

  5. #5
    Oberoten's Avatar
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    Well it sure is a interesting read... Quite educational tool.
    For your Ars Magica needs :
    https://fgrepository.com




    Atque in perpetuum frater, Ave atque vale.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jthm0138
    No, you can not obtain a copyright for a game.
    In the strict sense, you are right. A game, understood as the idea, system, and method to play the game, does not enjoy copyright protection. However, the words and expression used to describe the game, is protected by copyright.

    In a RPG context you might say that, you have to roll with a 20-sided die a number equal or higher than a number specified in the statistics of the defender. That mechanic is not protected by copyright, it is a system from several published games and you can develop on that idea. However, saying "to hit armor class zero and coining an abbreviation THAC0 for that starts to be really close to author's expression.

    In general, you can make a game, whose rules are a match with a previously published game, but the way to describe the game, the labels, and other artistic components/content must be original.

    It is the nature of all types of intellectual property protection to allow original developers or authors to capitalize on their investment while still promoting further advances in the field or technolgoy. This is, of course, much debated issue, but without patents, say, high-tech companies would not bother to invest in developmet as a copycat could immediately steal their results after producing the first application, or without copyright protection an author would not bother to write a novel. Thus a rational level of protection for novel inventions boosts development: with patents the level is specified as the number of years; while copyright only applies to the expression of the content, not the idea.

    Thus, as far as RPGs go, the game rules themselves are seldom protected (save patented systems, to my knowledge WotC hods some for collectible card games). The description and the flavour, i.e. content, of the games, enjoy copyright protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart
    Ged, I think the issue has been covered by Thore in past posts along with commentaries by some of the lawyers that solicit ( ) the boards elsewhere. The "issue" of patents/copyright/OGL etc. etc. tends to rear its head every now and then so perhaps a Sticky put together that covers what we probably already know is a sensible idea (as you intimate) ?
    It is a good idea, but difficult. Oftentimes these periodical discussion hold a slightly, but distinctively, different flavour. Thus a sticky detailing most issues (or our or our lawyer's views on those), some tiny detail voids the relevancy of the post. I'm not saying that nothing can be done in this respect, but we'll have to think carefully how to make it - and (as opposed to an "idle" forum reply) make sure it is as correct as it can, provided the international nature of these forums. Mostly these discussions revolve around the US regulations even though differences exist between countries.

  7. #7
    Okay, so in the spirit of putting on my flame retardant suit... I will submit that the OP has some ideas on copyright and "fair use" that do not mesh well with reality.

    Here are a few links that explain all in clear consise language:

    https://desktoppub.about.com/b/2008/...an-you-use.htm
    https://desktoppub.about.com/od/copy...fringement.htm
    https://desktoppub.about.com/od/term..._Art_Fonts.htm
    https://desktoppub.about.com/od/logo...Guidelines.htm
    https://desktoppub.about.com/od/copy...yright_Law.htm

    Now, I am not a lawyer, and I really am not in a position to dicker the finer points of copyright law. I do know a few guidelines though, as I regularly work in graphics creation. So here goes a simple explanation. While it may not be legal, it has ALWAYS worked for me, and I have yet to have a problem. (I also work for Kevin at DA, who knows a thing or two about copyright and usage - he keeps me on track.)

    1) If there is any doubt about the usage of an image, you must need contact the image creator for permission to use the image. This is a no-brainer. Even if you go as far as to make the resulting "derivative" work unrecognizable, protect your butt. Then you will never have a problem.

    2) Fair usage guidelines: Here is the link directly

    Note one of the main things that is said here:

    The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

    When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.
    While it is imaginable that the OP contacted Paramount for the usage of Kahn in his avatar, I highly doubt it. Now, since we are speaking about the internet, history shows us that it is impractical for the company to go after everyone who uses the image without permission. In fact, a court would not even go into session because the usage of said image really does not impact the sales of the original work, and the copyright holder needs to show damages to his said copyright from the infringement.

    Now, the second you get into distribution, it is a different story.

    It can be argued that the avatar in question falls under the so-called "parody" clause, therefore falls under "fair use". All I have to say is that one should not just assume, it is best to contact the original copyright holder and go from there.

    While the OP can say that his avatar is applicable with "fair use" because he has added some text to it and made it a "derivative" work... I submit he is wrong, because of the next point:

    3) Derivitive works: Link is here

    An interesting passage:

    Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. The owner is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author. Anyone interested in a work who does not know the owner of copyright may search the records of the Copyright Office. Or, the Office will conduct a search for an hourly fee.* For further information, request Circular 22, How to Investigate the Copyright Status of a Work.
    So, there you are.... in plain black and white.

    Again, in the case of the avatar, legally, it does not matter. The impact is so small that it would be a waste of time to persue the matter further. Does it make it right? Nope.

    My main concern with a posting like this is that the OP makes it out to be cut and dried. You have a situation X, so situation Y applies. Unfortunately, this is not the case with copyright laws. There is so much gray area, that one must really seek the legal advice of a professional when there is any doubt about the impact of distribution.

    Common sense also dictates what is right. Let me ask you. If I was to go to the WOTC site and rip all of the images of monsters/NPCs and make them into tokens for my own personal use, would that be right?

    A gray area. They are for my own personal use, and the impact on WOTC is negligible. Further, they would have a hard time prosecuting me for it.

    Now, if I took those same images and made them into tokens for a distribution (even for free) or for pay, am I violating copyright? Yes, you sure are. Don't believe me though, call up your lawyer. (And get a second opinion.)

    All I am trying to say is that people need to tread carefully when it comes to distributing copyrightable material. While it is true that you cannot "copyright" a game, system, rules and such, it HAS been established that you CAN copyright the Intellectual Property i.e. Images, Names, Fonts, etc. from said game.

    I hope that helps out a bit,

    Cheers,

    Sandeman

    (Who is still miffed that he was denied access to the OP site because he "works for Thore"
    Last edited by kalmarjan; March 13th, 2008 at 15:24.
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    I've had FG for so LONG I DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT!

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  8. #8
    Patents and copyrights no longer work how they were originally intended. A good legal team will be able to patent and copyright things that should not be able to be patented and copyrighted using loopholes.

    With every year more and more things go into the system that can be used as exceptions so it becomes easier and easier to sneak things into the system based or previous exceptions.

    If his lawyers say they can get it done you had better watch your back unless you can afford to fight it in court.

  9. #9
    jthm0138
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    Post removed by user.
    Last edited by jthm0138; March 13th, 2008 at 23:47.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jthm0138
    Le Sigh,
    As far as my point here with the original post, it was more to make people aware that they can make Rulesets for Fantasy Grounds without any real fear. Wizards of the Coast and their open game license isn't the only things we are limited to people. We could make for instance a GURPS ruleset for FGII. It couldn't include the actual text of the GURPS books as a whole, but it can hold a character record sheet and the ability to confirm rolls.
    I don't think Smiteworks has actively discouraged this. In fact, if a ruleset is to be made I suggest a character sheet/dice mechanics system only. I think the real times when Smiteworks has had to step in is when rules text were being included or images taken directly from the RPG book.

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