Savage Worlds Dice Explosions

[fredgar4]

Hello. One of the best features of fantasy grounds for my group is the ability to roll dice in the tower so the players dont know what they rolled. This is excellent for notice rolls, persuasion and whatnot. Unfortunately, since you input the new dice choices the function is broken when dice "explode", which is a key function of Savage Worlds our primary system. What happens now is if they roll in the tower and get an explosion, the explosion dice is visible to all the players. It is always teal colored die and it shows what was rolled on the explosions. It does not matter which dice set or color they are using. And to be clear, it shows the results of all exploding dice. So, if the same die explodes 3 times they will see to results of each of the explosion dice.

It has been bumming our group out for awhile. We really hope you will fix it soon. Thank you.

[dogfisc]

Are you using any extensions? I’m not in a position to test right now, but as of last Saturday, playing Pathfinder for SW, dice rolled in the tower appeared to players as shadows, as expected. It does show shadows for the exploding dice, so we could see when additional dice were rolled, but not their values.

[Jiminimonka]

Hello. One of the best features of fantasy grounds for my group is the ability to roll dice in the tower so the players dont know what they rolled. This is excellent for notice rolls, persuasion and whatnot. Unfortunately, since you input the new dice choices the function is broken when dice "explode", which is a key function of Savage Worlds our primary system. What happens now is if they roll in the tower and get an explosion, the explosion dice is visible to all the players. It is always teal colored die and it shows what was rolled on the explosions. It does not matter which dice set or color they are using. And to be clear, it shows the results of all exploding dice. So, if the same die explodes 3 times they will see to results of each of the explosion dice.

It has been bumming our group out for awhile. We really hope you will fix it soon. Thank you.

If this is a bug then it will get fixed.

That aside, Savage Worlds is all about Meta-Gaming - so knowing the dice results failed or succeeded should not impede game play. You know you failed the notice check but that is a Role-Playing tool/device.

[fredgar4]

Hello again.

@dogfisc - The only extensions for this campaign we have is the savage worlds fantasy companion as this is a home grown fantasy campaign using SW system. I double checked extension to just make sure.

@Jiminimonka - Well we do hope it does get fixed, but it has been messed up for a few months now and hasnt been fixed. So, I wanted to bring it up here to draw attention to it. As it was not an issue before they updated the dice to different dice sets and it only happens when dice explode, we can only assume it is not working as intended. As to the meta-gaming comment, I believe all every groups experience can be different and different people find enjoyment in different ways. Fantasy Ground's ability to hide certain dice and limit meta-gaming has been an incredible experience for me and my players. It has really increased the immersion and suspense. I would recommend you try it if you have not. I will provide a little insight into how we do it. We only do it for when the player would not know whether or not they were successful, AND players know they are allowed to use bennies still. For instance, the players will usually say whether or not they would spend a benny if it is unsuccessful. In which case, I would tell them whether or not they would want to spend a benny. If they dont say it, then we continue. This can pair exceptionally well with critical failures as I can provide all sorts of misleading or wrong information or numerous other options they may not know about like silent alarms and such. Notice rolls, knowledge rolls, persuasion, intimidation, and STEALTH are all prime examples. Athletics, physical skills and such always out in the open as you would know if you failed it or not. And while players can see they exploded (dice shadows) they dont usually know what they rolled or how high (unless they had multiple explosions) and then just more power to them. It is our favorite aspect (besides virtual playing) of fantasy grounds, with close seconds being the new LOS options with Unity, and blood splatters. We have often tried to find ways to bring the hidden dice into in person playing, but it is more challenging. We dont like taking away players ability to roll dice as it imparts a bit of ownership and "control", so we dont want the DM/GM rolling for them. But we love the ability to not always know everything. Knowing you failed a roll changes how you play and ruins critical failures for most skills. So while your gaming preferences might be different, not all Savage Worlds gaming experiences need to be about meta-gaming.

[Jiminimonka]

I think this bug got fixed in the recent update.

[fredgar4]

Awesome! I will get one of my friends to log in today to check it out. I will let you know.

[fredgar4]

Hello.

I just had a friend log on and we tested it. It is still not working correctly. I will try to describe the situation as best I can, so maybe it will help problem solve the issue.

1- when NOT exploding all dice are just shadows of the dice being rolled. (working)
2- When a dice explodes, the exploding die roll shows the full die and it is the exact die (color) the GM is using regardless of the die color the player is using. This happens regardless if it is the DM rolling in the tower or the player.
-- Example: DM has the default die set and is using teal green. The DM rolls a d6 die in the tower. The players only see a shadow of a d6. The d6 rolls a 6. The players cant see that, but that triggers an explosion and another d6 is automatically rolled and say it comes up a 4. The players see the full die (color and score) of that or any future exploding die. So the players see a green d6 showing a 4.
-- Example2: Player has black dice and the DM has teal green dice. The player rolls a d6 in the tower and sees a shadow of a d6 roll in their window. The die is a 6, but player cant see it. But it explodes and a new teal green die is automatically rolled. That player and all players see a teal green die and whatever it rolls.
3- So the exploding dice always comes up as the color and set the DM is using and the players can see the exploded die total regardless of what color the players are using.
Notes:
1- We are only using free dice sets as we have not spent money on any of the other die sets. Dice are dice imo. So.. I'm not sure if this is an issue with just the free dice sets. But we did try it with both elemental dice and default dice.

I hope this helps.

[Moon Wizard]

I believe this is something that is being addressed in a Test version for the Savage Worlds ruleset.

Because the changes to Savage Worlds were far ranging in the code to bring it closer to the core ruleset programming, I wanted to make sure that no issues were created by allowing people to test in our Test (beta) channel. While I pushed a bunch of updates yesterday as part of a big release, the Savage Worlds fixes and changes were not ready until Monday, so I didn't feel like any of our beta testing users actually got a chance to help make sure I didn't break anything. So, I kept all the changes in the Test/beta channel for now.

I'm being more cautious because the community developer that had been taking care of the Savage Worlds ruleset for many years has not really been available for over 6 months; so I'm just trying to maintain the code and bring it closer to our core programming to make it easier to maintain.

Additionally, Savage Worlds had its own death marker implementation that was built differently than the new version that works across multiple rulesets and allows customization. Part of the update in the Test/beta channel also migrates the Savage Worlds ruleset to use the new customizable version.

You're welcome to switch to the Test channel in the FG Settings and try it out. I would appreciate the extra testing, especially for an issue you are having.

Regards,
JPG

[fredgar4]

I would gladly help, but I may need some guidance on how to switch to test channel without breaking anything.

[Moon Wizard]

When you switch to the Test channel in the Advanced tab of the FG Settings, it makes a new folder that is completely separate from your Live installation. All updates to the campaigns after setting up the Test channel are completely independent; and you can switch back to Live to run your games.

Regards,
JPG