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  1. #21
    ddavison's Avatar
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    Did they really? Do you happen to have a link to the policy on their site? I'm trying to locate it firsthand so I can read what it says.

  2. #22
    ddavison's Avatar
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    Okay, I think I found it:

    All legal agreements for PayPal are listed here:
    https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/home

    These are the main ones where the language exists.

    User Agreement:
    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...locale.x=en_US

    Acceptable Use Policy:
    https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/a...locale.x=en_US


    I will have to look into that further.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mytherus View Post
    You know the funny thing for me is getting into using fantasy grounds was why I got PayPal before then I Resisted hard to try not to use the service. Now I added it to my steam account as well.

    As much as I think the recent PayPal flub is both egregious and ridiculous I’ll keep to using it for steam snd smiteworks only. I also wonder how PayPal would know if someone did use “misinformation” to fine them? I mean if you are careless sure but couldn’t someone just post around the internet with an account that has zero ties to their PayPal? Anyway good night.
    Since this thread was just bumped...

    Here's the issue: the big one is - This has no due process. This is a fine they put on your account if they THINK you said something. They know that you did a transaction with Smiteworks with the username "Mytherus". Lets say there is another "Mytherus" on [insert bad site here]. And that guy said some very unpopular things... They may just fine you, and you have to dig up lawyers and fight their lawyers to get your money back.

    This is why I removed my accounts from PayPal. My name is not unique, and I don't want to have money yanked out of any of my accounts because some 3rd party feels like I might have done something and I have to fight to get it back.

  4. #24
    No. It was a misunderstanding by the original source for this article. There have been $2500 for certain expression going back years. It's unrelated to the recent "misinformation" idiocy.
    !

  5. #25
    Hmmm, this didn't post for some reason.

    This is incorrect. The original source was mistaken. The idiocy regarding "misinformation" has NOT been reintroduced.

    The original source for this doesn't seem to be aware that there have been $2500 fines in the Paypal PUA for I believe over two years. While extremely concerning that a financial institution thinks it has the right to monitor its users in this way, it is an old issue. There are many with the PUA.

    Regardless, Smiteworks does need to provide an alternative payment mechanism to Fantasy Grounds. Eventually tying their business to these disturbing business practices will end up preventing its customers from giving them money.
    !

  6. #26
    ddavison's Avatar
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    The only fine I see is the section listed below from the User Agreement and the Acceptable Use Policy. The fines they charge appear to be limited by whatever balance you have, so the primary concern would be for people like us who are sellers and who may hold a balance on the platform. These don't appear to apply to buyers at all. They are claiming that they can hold or fine against a seller's existing balance there. As a consumer, I pretty much never carried any balance with PayPal.

    I bolded the parts that I think are pertinent.

    If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages - including, but not limited to, internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from a user’s violation - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control.
    From the Acceptable Use Policy:
    Last updated on September 21, 2021

    You are independently responsible for complying with all applicable laws in all of your actions related to your use of PayPal's services, regardless of the purpose of the use. In addition, you must adhere to the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy. Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement).
    The page leads with "Last updated on September 21, 2021."

    https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/a...locale.x=en_US

    Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information;
    Source: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...ted-activities

    One of the violations listed is to provide false, inaccurate or misleading information. Based on my reading of those three documents, I think it only appears to apply if you are a seller and you received funds for a transaction that provided false, inaccurate, or misleading information. Unfortunately, there are sellers that are essentially fraudulent. This would seem to be meant to cover them.

    Due Process?
    There is a section on the User Agreement titled "Agreement to Arbitrate". It is pretty heavily slanted in PayPal's favor, but it does detail a dispute resolution process. Unfortunately, this sort of language is pretty common with a lot of large companies. They likely have better lawyers than any other party that would be in a dispute with them. I kind of assume the same will be true for any other payment processor large enough to provide the services we need.

    I guess my main takeaway after reading through these again is that these are fairly standard language by big business. We can basically take it or leave it after we conduct a risk assessment for our business. I'm not seeing a risk for buyers in the language.

  7. #27
    So, when purchasing from the forge I can only purchase gold from paypal. I will look at linking steam and FGU, as I did with Paizo and FGU. Hopefully, I'll have better options to continue to purchase exts, and products. Always liked FG, and hope to have options to continue to grow the games I run and play.

  8. #28
    Please add me to the list of
    people requesting a “non-PayPal option!”

  9. #29
    Sulimo's Avatar
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    See posts #12 and. #14.

  10. #30
    Banks have always been the pinnacle of morales and integrity. Remember 2008?

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