STAR TREK 2d20
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    Across all rulesets there are only 315 extensions on the Forge. Maybe there are that many extensions again in other locations. Many extensions overlap each other and do similar things. SW know what extensions are actually used and for how many games. I know what extensions I use (Ive either written them plus up to 3 extensions I use in some games) and its not many. Just like most users never ever post on the forums, most dont use extensions.
    No offense, but this is a straight up lie. (bolded text by me)

    Im possible to know games that are not posted in the cloud. As my other computer isn't even online.
    The forge has been around for what? 17 months? How long has extensions be around? I fail to see what the 315 exts on the forge matter when that's really only a small amount of the ones out there.

    Next is, I think you making the point most do NOT post and most do NOT use exts. Most likely play vanilla and likely a huge downfall of FGU. If more stuff was included with the game itself more likely would see the power of the system instead of going to other locations.

    Sorry to derail my topic again, but I had to point out the falsehood that was just posted by a mod.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    No offense, but this is a straight up lie. (bolded text by me)

    Im possible to know games that are not posted in the cloud. As my other computer isn't even online.
    The forge has been around for what? 17 months? How long has extensions be around? I fail to see what the 315 exts on the forge matter when that's really only a small amount of the ones out there.

    Next is, I think you making the point most do NOT post and most do NOT use exts. Most likely play vanilla and likely a huge downfall of FGU. If more stuff was included with the game itself more likely would see the power of the system instead of going to other locations.

    Sorry to derail my topic again, but I had to point out the falsehood that was just posted by a mod.
    What are you saying here? Are you saying that because SW cant know what is on your offline computer, because some games are played direct and not via the cloud?

    By extrapolation - what magic allows you your insight? Do you know something I dont? Do you know something SW doesnt?

    How many extensions are out there? Please do tell me. I cant find these 1,000+ extensions. Perhaps you could point me to the other 700 wonderful extensions that I am missing out on?

    What has me being a mod got to do with anything? My comments are my comments. Im not speaking for SW any more than you are. If Im speaking as a moderator it will be obvious.

  3. #23
    @damned

    I don't have a clue what percentage of players use extensions, but I am willing to accept that it is isn't the majority for several reasons:

    1. A lot of extensions cost money and some of the truly great ones are $10-15. Cost is definitely an issue for some folks and there are people that are strongly opposed to buying 'features' for a client that already has a fairly high barrier of entry in regard to cost (primarily for DMs).
    2. Getting extensions installed and keeping them updated is too complicated or too much of a chore for some people.
    3. Some people simply aren't aware they exist or don't quite understand the benefits they can provide.

    Regardless, I don't find the argument that "most people don't use extensions and those that do don't use many" compelling, at all. Furthermore, I find it to be a bit of a slap in the face when the community creates an extension that fixes a problem or provides an objectively better user experience, your response is essentially "hardly anyone would use that so it's not particularly important." .....lol what?

    Every time SW makes a change that objectively improves the client, it's appreciated. Particularly when an improvement doesn't cost the user anything, the user doesn't have to maintain it individually, or have to go seek out the improvement on their own.

    It's simply good business to continually find ways to improve your product so I find it curious that there a number of extensions right now that perform the tasks of a bunch of items on the feature Wishlist. I understand integration, compatibility, and the rest of it, but when there's already a solid foundation why does it take so long to implement features that already exist in some capacity?

    I dunno, maybe pretty dice was a real m'fer.

  4. #24
    I don't think SW should be scooping up extensions en masse because there are quite a few of them that are subjective or homebrew-like additions. What I'm referring to are the extensions that address fundamental issues with the platform or individual rulesets that have been inarguably improved.

    A prime example of what I'm referring to is Saagael's Natural Selection extension which basically fixes the problem of being unable to interact with stacked tokens. Is there a better way to do it? Maybe? Probably? Who knows, but what Saagael has done is 1000% better than the previous option.

  5. #25
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    Why is it a slap in the face?
    Who am I slapping?
    I have spent a couple of years of time building things for this platform. Most of what I make is for other people and its for free. Use them. Dont use them. Im not slapping anyone or getting slapped.

    This whole argument is pretty circular. SmiteWorks made updates and it broke something. Why arent SmiteWorks updating stuff?

    Either they are updating and improving stuff or they are not.

    If someone makes something that improves the experience for one/some/all/none thats great. Im all for it.

    When you put something in quotes you are suggesting that I have said it. I did not say what you quoted. I didnt say anything remotely close to it.

    SmiteWorks are continually improving the platform and the products that sit on top of the platform. Because they are not working on something you think they should be working on is pretty much irrelevant to anyone else except you. If SW see 10 people want something or they see 1000 people want something they are going to be motivated differently by each.

    SmiteWorks cant just go and scoop up other peoples code. Other peoples code is other peoples code. Even if the owner gave them permission to use it they probably wouldnt. SW write code in a very specific way. There are plenty of very smart people about who write sharp code. There are people here who might be better coders than the SW team. But code that SW incorporates needs to (from their perspective) be written their way.

    I can think of three extensions I have written whose features were incorporated into official rulesets shortly after. But they sure as heck didnt use the code that I wrote. They wrote it the SW way and in line with their vision of their products.

    Your discussion of an extension that is not even 4 days old is just as good an argument for the current environment as it is for your argument. With all the community devs out there, over all the years, no one else has come up with a solution for this either. Maybe it is possible now because of some new feature that was added or because Saagel has some specific skill or experience or perspective that allowed him to make this extension. It wasnt just SW that didnt build this feature previously - no one else had. It took a combination of skills, experience, time, need, access etc. It also wasnt created in a vacuum. Devs talk to each other and help each other - both community and SW devs.

    And finally, as for slaps in the face. Your comment earlier in this thread to another community member was rude, crude and not at all in keeping with the general tone of this forum.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    No offense, but this is a straight up lie. (bolded text by me)

    Im possible to know games that are not posted in the cloud. As my other computer isn't even online.
    The forge has been around for what? 17 months? How long has extensions be around? I fail to see what the 315 exts on the forge matter when that's really only a small amount of the ones out there.

    Next is, I think you making the point most do NOT post and most do NOT use exts. Most likely play vanilla and likely a huge downfall of FGU. If more stuff was included with the game itself more likely would see the power of the system instead of going to other locations.

    Sorry to derail my topic again, but I had to point out the falsehood that was just posted by a mod.
    To be honest, long before the cloud Smiteworks knew who was playing and what ruleset they were using. Pre-cloud they used to post stats of how many games were played in a quarter using what ruleset. They were also able to say that it was a game and not someone booting up to do development or game prep. It is entirely possible that they also know what extensions are in use as both ruleset and extensions are established in the launcher. To say that it is a lie without proof it is a lie is kind of rude. I don't know but I do doubt that you play offline as you say, do you really go through the effort of unplugging your LAN from the net when you play? Do you sneaker net your updates? The only computer that matters is the computer you are running when you're running extensions and games.

  7. #27
    @BushViper

    I think it is a matter of resources. Collectively the community can develop more and faster than Smiteworks. There are consistent updates to both FGU and CoreRPG as is noted by the OP. In addition they only recently started developing ruleset internally again with Fallout and the other 2D20 games. The FGU transition really ate their production cycles but I see them moving forward faster lately and I would guess that is because FGC --> FGU is behind them.

    I think that a lot of people have programming experience or the will to learn it and just make what they want. If there is an extension out there that does what people want on the wishlist it makes sense to aim at what isn't already covered because people have what they want.

    I have complaints, like the PF2E Gamemastery guide seems to be in development limbo, but Trenloe has a life and will hopefully get to it someday, but I've run tons of games on FGU and my players are happy with what we have.

    Note if you think extensions blow up here you should have seen the Foundry update to v10... system and module writers were scrambling for days, weeks, months, still, and that was with practically a year of warning. Roll20 requires you to be a Pro subscriber to access the development API. Astral Tabletop... sadness... Anyways, nothing is perfect but thus far I'm happy with FGU.

  8. #28
    @damned

    There's no point in the two of us engaging any further here, but I will say that I have absolutely no idea what "comment" I'm supposed to have made that was so inappropriate. Also, if that was the case, why haven't I been sanctioned?

    Quote Originally Posted by esmdev View Post
    @BushViper

    I think it is a matter of resources. Collectively the community can develop more and faster than Smiteworks. There are consistent updates to both FGU and CoreRPG as is noted by the OP. In addition they only recently started developing ruleset internally again with Fallout and the other 2D20 games. The FGU transition really ate their production cycles but I see them moving forward faster lately and I would guess that is because FGC --> FGU is behind them.

    I think that a lot of people have programming experience or the will to learn it and just make what they want. If there is an extension out there that does what people want on the wishlist it makes sense to aim at what isn't already covered because people have what they want.

    I have complaints, like the PF2E Gamemastery guide seems to be in development limbo, but Trenloe has a life and will hopefully get to it someday, but I've run tons of games on FGU and my players are happy with what we have.

    Note if you think extensions blow up here you should have seen the Foundry update to v10... system and module writers were scrambling for days, weeks, months, still, and that was with practically a year of warning. Roll20 requires you to be a Pro subscriber to access the development API. Astral Tabletop... sadness... Anyways, nothing is perfect but thus far I'm happy with FGU.
    Of course it's a question of resources, but this thread has run its course and I don't care to go over the nuances of your point(s). I didn't get involved with this thread because I was upset with extensions being broken by updates. In fact, it doesn't really bother me much because I know it's an inherent part of using extensions. That, and I'm not the one that has to fix them. The primary reason I initially commented was to point out that some of the broken extensions could be avoided if SW were to pick up the best work and add them to their client.
    Last edited by BushViper; December 25th, 2022 at 07:35. Reason: slightly expanded my thoughts

  9. #29
    I think the biggest barrier to them picking up and adding things directly into rulesets is that it isn't really their code to use. They could ask and some might give or sell their code but depending on the license the extension author has decided to use they'd more likely have to reinvent the wheel, especially since extension authors are now able to sell extensions on the forge, why would they give up their pizza money?

    Anyways, I'm also done here.

    Regardless of our difference of opinions I do hope that everyone has a great last week of the year and next year too!

  10. #30
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushViper View Post
    SW should ship you a pair of kneepads.

    I'm not going to bother wasting time dissecting the bulk of your replies to DDT and myself. However, I will say that there are quite a number of extensions that are not subjective in their improvement of the client; they objectively improve the experience for every user.

    Also, out of simple curiosity, can you name 10 extensions that have been added to the base client?
    Here's a list of more than 10 https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l=1#post204116

    In addition to that weapon versatile handling, coin weight, inspiration slots, in line images in reference manuals, story templates, concentration handling, handling of regeneration etc. And these are just the 5e ones and I've probably forgotten a dozen more.

    Also the bolded comment was very rude. Please temper that your language.
    Last edited by Zacchaeus; December 25th, 2022 at 09:54.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

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