I'm really feeling bummed about how much money I've put into FG as a platform

[Aramis Dante]

The only real concern I have is if they create a new version of this system, (I have FGU), will all the modules I bought, be able to integrate with the new system. I am looking far ahead I suppose but it is a concern. As for its usefulness, I have no experience with other VTT's though I have watched games and seen reviews. I like FGU. For me to love a VTT it would have to be able to allow a user to create any rpg and game system without any coding involved. One way might be with a core system and then modules for different types of games, such as a module for rpg type games and one for wargames, one for card based games. This is no complaint, FGU is pretty good at what it does, better than the rest. But as a DM / creator I want to be able to modify, change, enhance and structure my game as I want rather than just a set way. Example; I noticed that you can't embed a picture in a story tab or item tab without using a link. I would like to be able to have the item shown when you click on the item rather than having to click on another link to get it. Conversely, there is no text tab associated with an image link. It would be nice to have one so you can make notes about that image. Again, this is not a criticism about FGU because I enjoy the product. I just want to point out small things that can only make it better, of course this is only my opinion. Thanks for reading the developers and users make this a great forum to be apart of. Sincerely Aramis

[bmos]

The only real concern I have is if they create a new version of this system, (I have FGU), will all the modules I bought, be able to integrate with the new system. I am looking far ahead I suppose but it is a concern.

While they haven't specifically said that it will, history suggests they will..
Modules purchased for use with FGC, for instance, also work with FGU (and continue to receive updates).

[Jiminimonka]

The only real concern I have is if they create a new version of this system, (I have FGU), will all the modules I bought, be able to integrate with the new system. I am looking far ahead I suppose but it is a concern. As for its usefulness, I have no experience with other VTT's though I have watched games and seen reviews. I like FGU. For me to love a VTT it would have to be able to allow a user to create any rpg and game system without any coding involved. One way might be with a core system and then modules for different types of games, such as a module for rpg type games and one for wargames, one for card based games. This is no complaint, FGU is pretty good at what it does, better than the rest. But as a DM / creator I want to be able to modify, change, enhance and structure my game as I want rather than just a set way. Example; I noticed that you can't embed a picture in a story tab or item tab without using a link. I would like to be able to have the item shown when you click on the item rather than having to click on another link to get it. Conversely, there is no text tab associated with an image link. It would be nice to have one so you can make notes about that image. Again, this is not a criticism about FGU because I enjoy the product. I just want to point out small things that can only make it better, of course this is only my opinion. Thanks for reading the developers and users make this a great forum to be apart of. Sincerely Aramis

You need to travel far into the future and bring back some super AI (but make sure it doesn't take over the world) - then you can have something that doesn't exist; a system that can make any thing you want with no programming required.

FGC is the old version of Fantasy Grounds, and FGU supports all the old FGC content.. there will not be another version of Fantasy Grounds (aside from update version numbers) for many years, so that point is kinda from 5 years ago when Smiteworks announced a new version of Fantasy Grounds and promised backward compatibility with all the many THOUSANDS of products already written, which they did.

FGU is new, only just released really and the maintenance of backward compatibility with FGC has meant slow updates. Now that FGC is retired, things will change more rapidly. (EDIT: Also, why would Smiteworks make another version of FG when they just released a new version?)

As a DM/Creator you can do all those things you want, but you have to learn to code. Look at some of the non-5e rulesets to see what is possible.

[AzureBlade]

You need to travel far into the future and bring back some super AI (but make sure it doesn't take over the world) - then you can have something that doesn't exist; a system that can make any thing you want with no programming required.

FGC is the old version of Fantasy Grounds, and FGU supports all the old FGC content.. there will not be another version of Fantasy Grounds (aside from update version numbers) for many years, so that point is kinda from 5 years ago when Smiteworks announced a new version of Fantasy Grounds and promised backward compatibility with all the many THOUSANDS of products already written, which they did.

FGU is new, only just released really and the maintenance of backward compatibility with FGC has meant slow updates. Now that FGC is retired, things will change more rapidly. (EDIT: Also, why would Smiteworks make another version of FG when they just released a new version?)

As a DM/Creator you can do all those things you want, but you have to learn to code. Look at some of the non-5e rulesets to see what is possible.

With the recent issues with Unity, I really hope that's not the case. With FG being a product in continuous development, it's going to be strongly hit by whatever horrible things Unity is planning to do in the future if it remains on Unity. They should bail out now, while they still can. Using Unity was a horrible decision at the time and it's only showing itself to be worse as time goes on. Fortunately, I'd bet most of their important code is fairly system agnostic and it wouldn't be all that difficult to port over to another, better, engine. It'd give them a chance to really focus on a "web server" approach like Foundry, which is really where they should have been looking in the first place if they'd actually been forward-thinking when they first started rebuilding FG. Let the web browser do the heavy lifting of your UI.

[similarly]

I don't want to derail this thread, and if this is too off-topics, Mods, you have my permission to delete it before it goes off the rails.

With the recent issues with Unity, I really hope that's not the case. With FG being a product in continuous development, it's going to be strongly hit by whatever horrible things Unity is planning to do in the future if it remains on Unity. They should bail out now, while they still can. Using Unity was a horrible decision at the time and it's only showing itself to be worse as time goes on. Fortunately, I'd bet most of their important code is fairly system agnostic and it wouldn't be all that difficult to port over to another, better, engine. It'd give them a chance to really focus on a "web server" approach like Foundry, which is really where they should have been looking in the first place if they'd actually been forward-thinking when they first started rebuilding FG. Let the web browser do the heavy lifting of your UI.

If by "issues", you're talking about the recent acquisition of IronSource by Unity, just some things to think about.
1 - Although described by some sources as a "merger" or "partnership", it's actually an acquisition. Unity is buying out IronSource, and IronSource will become a subsidiary of Unity. While I assume that Unity will keep IronSource's corporate structure and management more or less intact, it does mean that Unity is ultimately their boss and will decide what they do and how they do it going forward.
2- IronSource, contrary to what some sources are "reporting", as far as I can tell, never produced any malware. IronSource produced InstallCore, which was a way to bundle various exe files or apps in one installer. InstallCore has been used by unscrupulous 3rd parties to bundle malware along with installers for other software. However, InstallCore (and by extension IronSource) are no more to blame for this than a developer who makes torrent app is responsible for piracy. There ARE legitimate legal uses for torrent apps. And there have been legitimate legal uses of InstallCore. I've seen it in old games where you could buy a bundle of games (for example, part 1, 2 and 3) and instead of installing them one by one, you could just use InstallCore to install them together.
3 - Even if it turns out that IronSource had done something wrong in the past, they are now owned by Unity, and Unity is the boss, and hopefully Unity's management will see to it that from now on, IronSource follows Unity's business practices and ethics.

I think there has been some hysterical hand-wringing in the "press" over this, but for me, from what I've seen: it's probably a non-issue.

[AzureBlade]

I don't want to derail this thread, and if this is too off-topics, Mods, you have my permission to delete it before it goes off the rails.



If by "issues", you're talking about the recent acquisition of IronSource by Unity, just some things to think about.
1 - Although described by some sources as a "merger" or "partnership", it's actually an acquisition. Unity is buying out IronSource, and IronSource will become a subsidiary of Unity. While I assume that Unity will keep IronSource's corporate structure and management more or less intact, it does mean that Unity is ultimately their boss and will decide what they do and how they do it going forward.
2- IronSource, contrary to what some sources are "reporting", as far as I can tell, never produced any malware. IronSource produced InstallCore, which was a way to bundle various exe files or apps in one installer. InstallCore has been used by unscrupulous 3rd parties to bundle malware along with installers for other software. However, InstallCore (and by extension IronSource) are no more to blame for this than a developer who makes torrent app is responsible for piracy. There ARE legitimate legal uses for torrent apps. And there have been legitimate legal uses of InstallCore. I've seen it in old games where you could buy a bundle of games (for example, part 1, 2 and 3) and instead of installing them one by one, you could just use InstallCore to install them together.
3 - Even if it turns out that IronSource had done something wrong in the past, they are now owned by Unity, and Unity is the boss, and hopefully Unity's management will see to it that from now on, IronSource follows Unity's business practices and ethics.

I think there has been some hysterical hand-wringing in the "press" over this, but for me, from what I've seen: it's probably a non-issue.

Yes, they bought a company that specializes in user data harvesting and in-game ads. And the CEO of Unity has demonstrated himself to be completely amoral and willing to do anything for money and has even mocked those NOT willing to do anything for money. Then they fired 200 people two weeks after stating that no one was going to get fired.

[LordEntrails]

Then they fired 200 people two weeks after stating that no one was going to get fired.

I've worked for multiple companies who have done this and it sucks. But their are legitimate and legal reasons that can force a company to make such statements, even when they know they will contradict them in short order. I blame such behavior on forces larger than just the company.

[Jiminimonka]

So this new topic has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, just a way to bring up the merger of a company....

[*Neuro*]

As Zaccheus says, it depends on what you're looking for in a VTT.
I've been playing on FG since 2016 and have never regretted anything. I've also spent quite a bit of money on rulesets and adventures.
When I'm a single player, I sometimes play on roll20 or Foundry depending on the gamemaster.
It's true that the latter is good, and I bought it too. Not to play, but because I wanted to see how it works. I might use it if a ruleset is available and nothing exists on FG for the ruleset in question. What I like less in Foundry is its strength. Too many extensions made by many people (talented ones) for one and the same ruleset. And in case of an update, you have to pray that it still works...
However, my preference remains FG. I play DD5, Cthulhu, Savage Worlds (Deadlands, Beasts and Barbarians, ETU...), Alien, Vaesen, Tales from the Loop, Barbarian of Lemuria.
Yes, for me, FG still is the best.

It is a good VTT, but it is CLUNKY, all my players are saying this, and we play on FG since 2016.

They need to make the UI better and optimize code, if possible.

As it still feels CLUNKY.

[t3xx3r]

I bought a subscription to FGU Ultimate for the purposes of becoming a GM. Since then, I have bought CoC 6e because I GM it for one of my players. I also have downloaded custom rulesets from other community developers here. The main point to take away here is: "If you can afford to spend on a product you intend to use, then make the purchase worth it." IMHO, Fantasy Grounds outclasses roll20 in my own view:

1. The character setup is pretty fast in FGU as compared to roll20.
2. Character sheets are predefined, automated, and easily set up for fast combat, despite how slow or sluggy the actual combat is in real life tabletop roleplaying on FGU as compared to roll20.
3. The learning curve for FGU seems to be very high in appearance; in reality, if you take the time to learn the ropes of FGU, understanding the combat tracker, how to set up NPCs, sharing images and having actual tabs for things like items, spells, equipment, vehicles, etc. It makes it all worth it. roll20 is limited because you have to subscribe for more money in order to use the roll20 API and enhance your sheet for more complicated automaton.
4. The content you add to the ruleset depends on the development of the ruleset, whether it be official or not. I use WFRP 2e as a Gamemaster and have added a lot of content to the tabs such as Careers, Spells, Skills, Items (equipment, melee weapons, missile weapons, etc.) and it all makes my life easier as a GM and a whole lot more easier for my players who are very thorough about their characters, and either are magic users or have more specific careers that helps max out their character story-wise.
5. What roll20 can't beat FGU on is the community of developers. Those who would develop custom rulesets for dead but still living through players RPGs like WFRP 2e, W40K Roleplay (FFG), and others. This is not something you can really beat.
6. With some time spent on Lua programming and understanding ruleset development with the help of Ruleset Wizard, you could develop *your* own ruleset as you desire and have players play the game.

While there are some valid gripes about not having a browser for players to log into FGU while the GM hosts the game, my players find it very convenient to just download the demo program, keep updating it, and log into my server when the game runs. They all have a blast playing FGU because the more they play in it, the easier it got for them to understand how FGU works. They like the LOS, the walls, doors, and how the environment works. They also love the fact they don't get to type in /roll 1d10. They just click on the dice box and it rolls for themselves. Easy peasy.

NOTE: In regards to it being clunky, every VTT is clunky. MapTools is intimidating, clunky, and requires high level of Java programming to utilize it at maximum. Foundry VTT is clunky in its early stages and still will be clunky. roll20 is very erratic and autistic when it comes to certain browsers, has the tendency to shut you out and force you to relog back in, and is still clunky with its automaton system, the character sheets not responding at times.

Every VTT system is clunky, whether you like it or not. It depends on how programmatic the code is, how optimized it is, and how stable it becomes with each new version. So far, Roll20 kicks me out any time of the day whenever it feels like it; with FGU, none of my players or myself have been kicked out of a game session once. Not even once. I'd think FGU wins here.