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  1. #191
    EDIT: I completely misunderstood you, ignore this.

    EDIT 2: On closer look I think you are right. The encounter in your screenshot should be "Moderate", not "Extreme". I didn't realize you were saying the description was wrong, not the XP award.

  2. #192
    My understanding from previous debate is that for two PCs we need to remove two character adjustments from the budget to get the threat for that encounter. So, the table would be the standard 10-1, adjusted twice by the character adjustment value (subtraction in this case since is is less than 4 PCs:

    Trivial: 20 or less
    Low: 30
    Moderate: 40
    Severe: 60
    Extreme: 80

    One L+0 versus two Level 3 PCs is 80xp award, so an extreme encounter, not moderate. By the way, a single L+0 versus two PCs is **very** deadly imho, and there is no way this is Moderate as a guide. Right? Just wanting to be 100% clear.
    Daniel Salles de Araújo (@dsaraujo)
    Developer of PFRPG2 GM Enhancements - Improve your Pathfinder 2E game!
    Check out the Pathfinder Deck of Endless NPCs!

  3. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaraujo View Post
    My understanding from previous debate is that for two PCs we need to remove two character adjustments from the budget to get the threat for that encounter. So, the table would be the standard 10-1, adjusted twice by the character adjustment value (subtraction in this case since is is less than 4 PCs:

    Trivial: 20 or less
    Low: 30
    Moderate: 40
    Severe: 60
    Extreme: 80

    One L+0 versus two Level 3 PCs is 80xp award, so an extreme encounter, not moderate. By the way, a single L+0 versus two PCs is **very** deadly imho, and there is no way this is Moderate as a guide. Right? Just wanting to be 100% clear.
    That's not right. It's an 80xp award, but it's a 40xp encounter.

    When scaling a moderate encounter to different party sizes, you adjust the budget by 20xp in either direction, depending on if you're adding or removing characters.
    For a 4 player party, you want 80xp of monsters for a moderate difficulty encounter.

    For a 2 player party, you want 40xp of monsters for a moderate difficulty encounter.

    a single L0 monster is worth 40xp, therefor a a single L0 monster is a moderate encounter to a 2 player party.


    After the moderate encounter is completed, you'd award the players with 80xp because you always award the players XP as if it's a 4 player party, but the award has no impact on the threat level. That's always based on the difficulty table for the encounter.

    ---

    Here's a good example:

    2 L0 monsters are worth 80 XP. This is a moderate difficult encounter for a party of 4.
    If I'm playing the campaign with a party of 2, I need to scale this encounter down.

    To do this, I look at the table linked below, and see I need to reduce the budget of this encounter by 20, for each player missing. This leaves me with a budget of 40.

    Since I know that a L0 monster is worth 40xp, I know I can remove 1 L0 monster from this encounter, which leaves a 40xp budget, making this a moderate encounter for my party of 2, successfully scaling the encounter.

    Likewise, if my encounter was one L+1 and a L-2 that would be an award of 80xp for a party of 4. If I wanted to scale this down, I would need to adjust it down to 40 XP again.
    I could do this by removing the L-2 monster, and changing the L+1 monster to a Weak variation, making it a single L0 encounter (or a 40xp encounter)

    Reference: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=497
    Last edited by ThirdSign; March 13th, 2023 at 11:09.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsaraujo View Post
    One L+0 versus two Level 3 PCs is 80xp award, so an extreme encounter, not moderate.
    It's 40xp budget, but an 80xp reward.

    I'll refer back to the post I made earlier in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    Table 10-1 Encounter Budget on page 489 gives the threat level, budget and character adjustment. If you have more than 4 PCs you need to essentially create a new table - adding the character adjustment to the XP budget to know the various threat level thresholds.

    The character adjustment XP per PC different than 4 are based off the base threat level: Trivial = 10, Low = 15, Moderate = 20, Severe = 30, Extreme = 40.

    For example:

    • 2 PCs have the threat levels as Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 20, 30, 40, 60, 80.
    • 3 PCs have the threat levels as Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 30, 45, 60, 90, 120.
    • 4 PCs have the threat levels as Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 40, 60, 80, 120, 160.
    • 5 PCs have the threat levels as Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 50, 75, 100, 150, 200.
    • 6 PCs have the threat levels as Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 60, 90, 120, 180, 240.


    But, even though the encounter budget is different for a party size of other than 4 PCs, the base XP awarded is still based off the 4 PC levels: Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 40, 60, 80, 120, 160.
    A single Party level creature has an XP "budget" of 40 XP, it doesn't matter how many PCs are in the party, the XP budget is always 40xp. So, if the level 3 party in our example encounters one party level creature, the XP budget value is always 40xp - and we need to look at the list above to see what threat level this equates to:

    Taking 2 PCs, the threat level budget is: Trivial, Low, Moderate, Severe, Extreme = 20, 30, 40, 60, 80.

    40xp budget is a Moderate threat level encounter for 2 PCs and a moderate threat encounter gives 80xp - it would be a low threat encounter for 3 PCs (60xp) and Trivial threat for 4+ PCs (40xp or less).

    As mentioned by @ThirdSign in post #188 - the values in their screenshot are correct (40xp budget, 80xp award) it is just the threat level that is incorrect.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  5. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaraujo View Post
    One L+0 versus two Level 3 PCs is 80xp award, so an extreme encounter, not moderate. By the way, a single L+0 versus two PCs is **very** deadly imho, and there is no way this is Moderate as a guide. Right? Just wanting to be 100% clear.
    It is quite deadly, but by the rules it's moderate. Honestly, two L+0 versus four PCs has also always felt more than just "moderate" to me, difficulty wise, but that's what the rules say.

    As ThirdSign and Trenloe have said, the threat of an encounter is based on the budget, not the final XP award. It's easy to see why it needs to be this way if you go extremely in the other direction:

    Say for example you have an (ill-advised) 8 player party. For such a party, the budgets would be:

    Trivial: 80XP
    Low: 120XP
    Moderate: 160XP
    Severe: 240XP
    Extreme: 320XP

    As previously discussed, the awards don't change, and stay at the usual 40/60/80/120/160.

    Let's then say you build an (also ill-advised) 8 L+0 encounter. Such an encounter would have a 160XP award... but it's hardly a "moderate" encounter, is it? No, it's clearly an extreme encounter. So the threat is determined by the budget (320XP in this case), not the final XP award of 160XP.

  6. #196
    Thanks again for the explanation. My challenge here is that the whole XP calculation was based on the Random Encounter tool, which has a different perspective: instead of looking at monsters and calculating XP, I was looking at an initial threat and trying to fit appropriate monsters there, so that cause me a lot of confusion as they share most of the code. Here how it should look like after the fix, let me know if I'm still missing something:

    Screenshot 2023-03-13 091921.png

    Edit: since I've got no negative feedback. I'm pushing this to live as 1.9.2
    Last edited by dsaraujo; March 15th, 2023 at 21:42.
    Daniel Salles de Araújo (@dsaraujo)
    Developer of PFRPG2 GM Enhancements - Improve your Pathfinder 2E game!
    Check out the Pathfinder Deck of Endless NPCs!

  7. #197
    Rune Force does not seem to recognize the Impactful rune from Secrets of Magic.

  8. #198
    This is due to the rune not having anything filled in the Subcategory Field. Change it to Weapon Property (to be similar to the CRB) or Rune (to be similar to APG) and it should work. I wish the modules had some consistency to them for those fields...
    Daniel Salles de Araújo (@dsaraujo)
    Developer of PFRPG2 GM Enhancements - Improve your Pathfinder 2E game!
    Check out the Pathfinder Deck of Endless NPCs!

  9. #199
    Ooh, I should probably report that as a bug, then.

  10. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaraujo View Post
    The honest answer here is that I do not provide any future guarantee that this extension will be maintained. The reason I built this was because I play PF2 using Fantasy Grounds and I missed those features, so I took on myself to add them (learning lua was also a motivator). I initially shared some of those for free, but after spending a lot of time on the extension, I felt like charging a small fee was in place.

    I will maintain this while I play PF2 and FG, which seems very likely. I started using FG in 2007, so sunken cost fallacy is strong here. And while I play, I don't want this to break for me either.

    With all that said, I can commit to open the source code if I ever plan to stop maintaining it indefinitely. What I'm not explicitly promising here is that this will be updated forever, so make your decision fully informed.
    Also like many other cases someone may step up to maintain and improve it in your stead.

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