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  1. #1

    Flaming burst and Undead.

    So, I got a player with a flaming burst axe (as flaming, plus on a crit, it adds +2d10 fire damage).

    It's pretty easy to setup with "DMG: 2d20 critical, fire" but as that player started mowing down mummies, I realized the extra fire damage gets blocked beause it's also tagged as "critical". Is there a way I'm missing that would allow me to make that extra damage (which it's specified it SHOULD work) count? I'm out of ideas. (for now I have the player script a 2d10 fire damage as an extra weapon to use)

    Thank you ^^

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Asgurgolas View Post
    So, I got a player with a flaming burst axe (as flaming, plus on a crit, it adds +2d10 fire damage).

    It's pretty easy to setup with "DMG: 2d20 critical, fire" but as that player started mowing down mummies, I realized the extra fire damage gets blocked beause it's also tagged as "critical". Is there a way I'm missing that would allow me to make that extra damage (which it's specified it SHOULD work) count? I'm out of ideas. (for now I have the player script a 2d10 fire damage as an extra weapon to use)

    Thank you ^^
    I do not think this is currently possible. But a good point

    I think one needs something similar as for the weapon damage types (to be immune against an incoming damage die with weapon damage types one has to be immune against all incoming weapon damage types), but with respect to critical stuff, in the sense of that all non-weapon damage types may circumvent immunity against crits if not also immune against these damage types? (speaking of the program code, I mean)

  3. #3
    I just made some research on that, and indeed: Burst effects are not necessarily activated against crit-immune creatures See for example here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ritical-Immune, especially the 3.5E FAQ citation Since the fire burst does not mention something extra like desiccating burst it would not apply to mummies, if I read it correctly
    Last edited by Kelrugem; December 19th, 2021 at 16:16.

  4. #4
    Well, by https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm one also finds
    Magic Weapons and Critical Hits
    Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.
    Now, I am just confused It may be that the FAQ is mainly about the fortification part (which would make the automation even more nasty)

  5. #5
    I try the following in my extension: Fortification can negate crits (as it now already does), while immunity still allows crit effects like flaming burst

  6. #6
    Another thing I've noticed about ypur fortification is that it checks for every single instance of damage instead of "all-or-nothing". For example, a critical hit with extra 2d6 precision damage plus ranger's favored enemy (+2 precision damage) and something adding +10 precision damage, against fortification 25%.

    It rolls once for the critical, once for the sneak attack, a third time for favored enemy and once again for the arbitrary +10 precision damage, though it should only roll once to negate all extra damage related to the attack
    It works anyway but ends up assigning damage funnily (in the above example, Fortification 25% would say, block the sneak attack but not the critical, or just the critical, favored enemy and not sneak attack).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Asgurgolas View Post
    Another thing I've noticed about ypur fortification is that it checks for every single instance of damage instead of "all-or-nothing". For example, a critical hit with extra 2d6 precision damage plus ranger's favored enemy (+2 precision damage) and something adding +10 precision damage, against fortification 25%.

    It rolls once for the critical, once for the sneak attack, a third time for favored enemy and once again for the arbitrary +10 precision damage, though it should only roll once to negate all extra damage related to the attack
    It works anyway but ends up assigning damage funnily (in the above example, Fortification 25% would say, block the sneak attack but not the critical, or just the critical, favored enemy and not sneak attack).
    Yes, that is on purpose, I made somewhere a note about it I like it more and at that time this was my interpretation about the rules

    Because, that is what I have found out, it has to roll separately for crit and precision, not once for both. It is not really clear (at least not explicitly stated) what happens if there are multiple different crit sources etc. So, maybe just once for all the crit and once for all the precision... Not impossible to code, but I figured that is so much of an edge case that I didn't want to bother coding it. And I personally like the current solution due to the higher spectrum of possible outcomes

  8. #8
    well for Fortification it goes FORT: 25 precision; FORT: 25 critical so it stands to reason that it rolls once for each. I'm fine with two separate rolls for criticals and precision; the issue is rather on the fact that if I have:

    +4d6 sneak attack (rogue 7)
    +2d6 sneak attack (swordsage Assassin's Stance)
    +Int bonus to damage (swashbuckler's insightful strike, adds int to damage as precision damage)

    and hit a target with fortification, it rolls once for the 4d6 sneak damage (precision), once for the +2d6 sneak damage (assassin's stance), and once for the +int to damage (while it's supposed to be all or nothing).


    Basically multiple instances of the same damage type should be counted all at once for fortification effects. Multiple instances of critical/precision still come and hit the same spot on the target's body, and if the fortification effect helps on that it stops the whole damage

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Asgurgolas View Post
    well for Fortification it goes FORT: 25 precision; FORT: 25 critical so it stands to reason that it rolls once for each. I'm fine with two separate rolls for criticals and precision; the issue is rather on the fact that if I have:

    +4d6 sneak attack (rogue 7)
    +2d6 sneak attack (swordsage Assassin's Stance)
    +Int bonus to damage (swashbuckler's insightful strike, adds int to damage as precision damage)

    and hit a target with fortification, it rolls once for the 4d6 sneak damage (precision), once for the +2d6 sneak damage (assassin's stance), and once for the +int to damage (while it's supposed to be all or nothing).


    Basically multiple instances of the same damage type should be counted all at once for fortification effects. Multiple instances of critical/precision still come and hit the same spot on the target's body, and if the fortification effect helps on that it stops the whole damage
    Yeah, I completely understood what you meant But as I wrote above I will probably not adjust it because I prefer it that it rolls separately for separate sources Even if it is about the same damage type (precision in your example). Sorry my answer above was maybe confusing, but I actually also answered regarding such examples

    If you do not like it, then I would suggest that you conglomerate the effects to one effect (but you may need to track the durations if the durations are short in sense of typical duration of combat)

    Even if I would also prefer that it just rolls once for all precision, it would be just too complicated to code it. Or I completely remove the ability of FORTIF to be coded for all possible damage types; if I would just restrict it to crits and precision, then it is easier to do But unlikely that I will change it, because I personally prefer that it rolls for each source separately
    Last edited by Kelrugem; December 19th, 2021 at 20:02.

  10. #10
    nah it's fine, I just thought it was a bug or something, but if you did it on purpose then it's fine^^

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