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  1. #1

    Main issue with Line of sight on maps

    I think the line of site is cool/lighting, but there was something unnerving about the presentation that I could not quite understand. I have finally figured it out. The issue is with many maps, the line of site is set to the outer pixel of the whatever the obstacle is. a wall, a statue, a pillar, etc. So the player sees what they see and anything else looks like a black void.
    This is true of many map packs, the built in tokens in map making packs, and converted map files.
    What should happen, is the line of site guidelines should be placed slightly inside of the obstacle so that when the players LOS ends, they can see the contour of what the obstacle is. This dramatically improves the player's visual experience. I have gone through the maps in the Dungeon of the mad mage module and started doing this and it makes a big difference. However, it is very tedious.

  2. #2
    Can you show screenshots with example? You want the LOS to be in the contour, so the players actually see the first few pixels of wall/column/etc?
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  3. #3
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    What BillandDarrin means can be illustrated in the images attached. All the images are from a sample room in the first map of DotMM. The first pair show the image as it is now with and without the LoS lines visible. There is, as you can see, a slight 'bleed through' of the sight through the lines into the image beyond so you can just see the edges of the walls. The second pair of images show the lines moved back from the edge of the wall so that more of the wall is shown. The OP is saying that this is visually more pleasing to the players. Currently all LoS is drawn as the first pair of images show; on the basis that this is more 'correct' in that the wall is blocking line of sight and so you can't see into or beyond the surface of the wall. However there are a number in the community that would prefer the latter method where lines are drawn back from the edge so that more wall is visible. I hear from this section of the community now and again. What I don't hear much is from those that like it the way it is and don't want the lines to be in the middle of the wall or at least back a bit from the edge. So I wonder if the majority view is the status quo or whether there is a much bigger section of the community that think more wall should be visible.

    I can tell you now that there's no way I'm going back over the current DLC and changing the way the LoS is drawn; but going forward I will certainly take into consideration the community view if that view is that it should be different from the way it's done now.

    (Incidentally DotMM is probably not a great example since the maps are all in black and white. Where there are coloured maps that might make a difference)
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    Last edited by Zacchaeus; June 14th, 2021 at 09:42.
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  4. #4
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    I'm certainly in the camp of wanting to see more of the wall/boundary when the map allows it. Sometimes the edge of LoS can be mistaken for a wall if there's only a couple of pixels of the wall showing in other places, especially when zoomed out a little. Having more of the wall/boundary showing also gives the players a better view of the exact make-up of a room and so adds to the atmosphere (that's now pretty good with dynamic lighting) and also reduces the amount of questions from the players.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    I'm certainly in the camp of wanting to see more of the wall/boundary when the map allows it. Sometimes the edge of LoS can be mistaken for a wall if there's only a couple of pixels of the wall showing in other places, especially when zoomed out a little. Having more of the wall/boundary showing also gives the players a better view of the exact make-up of a room and so adds to the atmosphere (that's now pretty good with dynamic lighting) and also reduces the amount of questions from the players.
    I join this camp too.
    The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.

  6. #6
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    Me too!

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  7. #7
    Me too, too!

    (and I'd say as much wall as you can reasonably get away with for player immersion's sake)

  8. #8
    I'm also for it but I think it really comes down to how well the maps are drawn. Not giving away secret doors or anomalies in the walls can be difficult as are very thin walls.
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  9. #9
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Honestly I think the better solution is to ask Moon for a map/image setting that allows the amount of bleed through to be controlled. If I remember right, he said it is currently 3 percent of the grid size. An image slider that goes from perhaps 0-20 would be ideal in my case. That way I can control what I think is best, plus if a map is done differently, then I can change the bleed appropriately.

    Note, I'm in the camp of more, but I understand the silent camp.

  10. #10
    I was discussing this a bit with @ddavison. The challenge with a "configurable" bleed through is that it becomes yet another setting needing to be stored on a per-image basis. Additionally, this adds yet another factor in LoS issue calculations (which could create issues in LoS calculations) as well as investigation/resolution.

    I'm also always aware that it's a slippery slope; and then people will want per-wall bleed through....

    Regards,
    JPG

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