LoS terrain issues.

[zBeeble]

I've got a few LoS terrain issues that I don't think are being addressed. So... Here I make a table of what is and what should be in this example.

I didn't exhaustively detail all pairings (and the table is in the graphic --- can't seem tot make tables here) but both false positives and false negatives exist and there is no way with the existing tools to express the simple relationship here.

[Aramis Dante]

Is your terrain LOS open or closed. If it is opened it will not hinder LOS. In the example below both stairwells are using Terrain LOS the one highlighted (North) is closed while the one not highlighted (South) has its terrain LOS open. Hope this helps los.JPG Aramis

[Zacchaeus]

I can't have both of your images up at once so it's difficult to figure out what you're difficulties are. But one line A to F you have said that the players can see F from A and the way you have set up the terrain that is correct. Terrain allows you to see into but not out of an area so from A you can see all the way to F since there is nothing blocking the sight. If you don't want F to be seen from A then you'll need a terrain piece which stops at the top of the stairs. See videos 10-13 here (especially 12) https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...112#post492112

[zBeeble]

I understand how terrain works, but it's simply inadequate to express LoS over "terrain." My example being that from the bottom of the steps, you should not see the top of the landing 8 feet up (you can here) and you should not further see the hallway beyond (which you can here). From further beyond the bottom, you can still see the top ... but you can't see the further hallway (still wrong). Equally, from the hallway at the top, you should not be able to see the bottom of the stairs, but you should be able to see into the cavern further than the stairs.

Worse are the north south hallways. You can see into the center of the intersection, but not across the intersection --- which is the most noticeable fail. And this is not fixed by using more separate terrain --- it is made worse.

[Griogre]

If I'm understanding what you want, zBeeble, try just putting a terrain occluder only around the stairs not the area above or below them.

[zBeeble]

If I'm understanding what you want, zBeeble, try just putting a terrain occluder only around the stairs not the area above or below them.

Almost but not quite. Top of the stairs can't see the bottom and beyond., beyond the top of the stairs can't see beyond the bottom (but correctly can't see bottom).

About the only thing that terrain works perfectly for is a knol or heap type feature. Pile of rubble, for instance.

I'm not saying I have the answer (other than encoding height in maps), but I'm pointing at the feature and saying that it's work/fail ration is 50/50 -ish.

[Zacchaeus]

I understand how terrain works, but it's simply inadequate to express LoS over "terrain." My example being that from the bottom of the steps, you should not see the top of the landing 8 feet up (you can here) and you should not further see the hallway beyond (which you can here). From further beyond the bottom, you can still see the top ... but you can't see the further hallway (still wrong). Equally, from the hallway at the top, you should not be able to see the bottom of the stairs, but you should be able to see into the cavern further than the stairs.

Worse are the north south hallways. You can see into the centre of the intersection, but not across the intersection --- which is the most noticeable fail. And this is not fixed by using more separate terrain --- it is made worse.

Your issue is that you have defined the terrain from the bottom of the steps right up to the end of the platform on top of the steps cutting across the corridor from D to A. As I mentioned above terrain allows you to see into it but not out of it - so you need to think about where the player token should not be able to see. In this case they should not be able to see the platform on top of the stairs from the bottom of the stairs (in your example they should not be able to see from B to F. Equally the players should be able to see B from A since there is nothing blocking the bottom of the steps. So your terrain occluder should be a narrow occluder which runs from the wall at the top of the steps down to maybe 3/4 of the way up the steps.

I don't have the image you have but in the attached this is how I'd handle stairs. From the bottom of the stair the players cannot see beyond the top step into the corridor beyond. Nothing is restricting the view along the corridor on the top from right to left and equally the bottom of the stairs can also be seen. So if you narrow your terrain occluder to just the top of the stairs in your image then the players won't be able to see from A (or B) to F and there's no restriction in the view along the E/F/E corridor. Once the player gets to the top of the stairs they'll be able to see out of the occluder into F/C/D and E.

From the top of the stairs it is more difficult to do what you want. The occluder at the top will prevent a token from seeing not just the stairs but everything beyond it. There's no functionality which allows you to see past something whilst still blocking what's right in front of you. You might be able to ffineese it using a pit occluder (but maybe not until the newer version of that occluder appears in 4.1).

[zBeeble]

From the top of the stairs it is more difficult to do what you want. The occluder at the top will prevent a token from seeing not just the stairs but everything beyond it. There's no functionality which allows you to see past something whilst still blocking what's right in front of you. You might be able to ffineese it using a pit occluder (but maybe not until the newer version of that occluder appears in 4.1).

Well... The top of the stairs and further along the upper hallway are two issues. I'd even be willing to discard the further along the hallway for now --- but the top-of-the-stairs is an important issue. It almost begs that terrain be directional. That is.. the top of the stairs can see past the terrain but the bottom of the stairs cannot.

The image I clipped to my original post is a screen grab of The Lost Mine of Phandelver ... most recent update ... at the western entrance to the "Northern Barracks" chamber. There are actually multiple places in this map where what I'm talking about occurs. Another map is the Cragmaw Cavern... the goblin blind outside the cavern. I suppose if terrain had a directionality to it, most of my issues are solved, but I still think we need to think harder on this LoS item.