How important to Community is a SmiteWorks store app to do Extensions?

[Jiminimonka]

Also yeah need is relative. Some people are just lazy.

[Kelrugem]

Also yeah need is relative. Some people are just lazy.

That has nothing to do with laziness; some people have for example difficulties with certain calculations which is no reason to blame them for Hence, automation leads to better accessibility which is a very good thing. And just because one uses an extension to get rid of certain things, doesn't mean that one does less in total. It can also mean that one does more with respect to another aspect (Like more automation leading to that people can focus more on RP, so, no laziness here; though it is completely okay to want to be "lazy", especially because we speak about gaming As a mathematician, I don't want to do all the similar calculations again and again and again and again... while gaming )

To the discussion here in general: Yes, certainly good when the base programme does already have as much as possible. I think, there is nothing to argue against that. But it is always a matter of priority with respect to other possible features. Since I cannot DM at the moment, I play in a 5e game since a year; up to today I never had the feeling to need more automation than what is already provided (EDIT: Though certainly nice to have more options with extensions I just want to say that I did not have the feeling that there is a very big lack which should be immediately fixed. But I am also not a power user of 5e)

As someone who writes extensions: I do not necessarily need such a extension portal, but I'd be happy about it because then it is easier for users to look it up and to update extensions Forum threads tend to clutter up and spread around over time

[MrDDT]

Also yeah need is relative. Some people are just lazy.

Not sure how coding exts and installing them is lazy.

Again, you can play D&D without any tools whatsoever (maybe some dice) because you can play it all in your mind. Anything after that step is relative on need.
It's getting a little off topic but personally, I feel like there are a lot of simple exts that should be put into the game itself. I also feel there needs to be a better way for ext makers to put out exts. These exts can help make up for such very different choices people would like to make.

[SilentRuin]

Mod for the love it, mod privately for yourself, mod because it's good skill practice and can go on your resume, but no i can't get behind the idea of a paid for product designed so as to also be a profit platform for moders.

I choose to sell my extensions. I get lots of people want to do work for free, I even support a community extension for free.

Your choice, is not to buy anything. I support this choice.

My choice is to do it for free, or not. I support this choice also.

EXTENSIONS = RISK - whether they are for free or not. My recommendation is always the same, run FGU as it is and if you find something you want to change for your needs - write your own extensions - if you can't - find a free extension on the FG forums to meet that need - and if you can't - check the paid for extensions.

Basically, I support people who want to write free stuff.

What I don't support? People telling me I have to write and support free stuff. I assume you were not doing that, and simply made the phrasing seem that way to my eyes, and were simply expressing your opinion that you do not support paid extensions.

I'm perfectly fine with that stance.

Just not that I have to adopt that same choice

[EdMurray]

I know for my games I really enjoy the extension. Though what I liked most was the extensions in the Armory that sometimes got picked up and implemented into the game as part of a feature instead of an extension. Only a few talented people can actually code worth a damn. I am not one of them. So yes I rely on those more talented then me. I love this game and connection it gives us around the world. I've been playing since 1976 and having an online connection is next world stuff. I have to agree that a way to auto-update extensions makes far more since the the general public. If there is a risk for broken issues then I say when an extension is updated there be an auto off for that extension until it can be tested. There are lots of extensions that do not work nicely with each other so all extensions should be in the hands of the DM to turn on or off default to off when new. I also agree those who put in so much time should have the ability to be compensated somehow. Though I'm always hoping SW implements some the ones that are so popular to be a feature and not an extension. Always striving to be better is the way to go.

[similarly]

Here's my reason for supporting paid extensions.
Yes, there are a LOT of great extensions that are free. Some people don't need the money, or don't want the hassle of selling. But the truth is, I think there are a LOT of awesome mods that never would have been made without the incentive of being able to make money off of it.

I think having paid extensions as an option increases the number and quality of the mods and extensions we can get. FGU does a LOT of awesome things on its own, and I know a fair number of people who don't use extensions or mods. Me? I'm hooked on mods and extensions. I love being able to customize FGU into the experience that I want.

I hope they get this sorted soon because I really wanted that new extension by SilentRuin!

[Jiminimonka]

Its a moot debate really. Smiteworks already said they are working on implementing an extension facility (and took a dev off another job to do so) - so we will be getting in soon enough.

[Jiminimonka]

Let me give some history on why I ask this of the community first. As some of you know about 3 weeks ago I had an extension deactivated in DMsG and put in a state of limbo after about 5 sales and 15 minutes. Within that thread it was mentioned by SmiteWorks that they were working on an store app that would allow support of .ext files (extensions/code).

My question to the community is - how important would having this be to you?

I always tell people that EXTENSIONS = RISK and this is 100% absolutely true. People can break FG code with an extension. FG changes can break an extension. Other extensions can (and will inevitably) conflict with other extensions - though this can be minimized with careful implementation.

Yet, given all that RISK, extensions are a vital part of the community. I am a firm believer that you should try to use RAW FG code before you try any extension. Then, if during that adventure, you find you need something to make things easier to manage the game - write an extension for yourself. If you cannot, or do not want to do this, then search for a free extension in the forums that fulfills that need. And only if you you can't resolve your need still, search for a paid extension.

People may ask why any extension is "paid for" as they should all be free. That's a valid point of view. I maintain a free one for the community in fact. But I know how much work that is. And I know how much work making an extension can be (350 hours for one of mine). I make my extensions for myself. And put them in DMsG for others if they feel they are worth paying for. And why is it paid? Because it's my choice to do so and I like seeing if someone considers it worth while.

But regardless of where you fall in the great philosophical debate of "paid" or "free" - this post is to gauge the communities interest in getting SmiteWorks to get the previously mentioned application (see link above) out there.

I'm obviously prejudiced in my opinion of wanting it as I wait in limbo with one of my extensions - trapped in "between" the powers that be in resolving its fate - so you should not really count my opinion. Give yours. And why. Pro or con is all fine.

You can add a PayPal link to your extensions. Dulux-Oz did that with his Sound extension (the original soundboard that worked with Syrinscape) - if you paid his $5 (AUS) he would email the link.mod that saved you adding in all the URI to FG.

[bratch9]

While I think mods and extensions are good for FG, free or paid ( up to creator ), I do think FG should implement more by default. ( Minecraft would be far from what it is now without mods.. )

We 'just' got rule set support for 'offhand' automation, multiple extensions have implemented this for a while now....

I do not know when the 5e effects system was added, but this seems to be a crutch to implementing things in the rules. I see a load of 'mods', not extensions, that implement character features that should be part of the code. eg. 'rage' which has an official 5e effects listed implementation. Along with spell setups and item setups all that work in the effects system. I feel these sorts of things should be 'included' when you buy the game and added to when you buy the 'books'. For a lot of them it is mainly a need to configure them in the effect system, why should every player have set these up ?

As I understand the 5e rule set is based on SRD data, but I suspect if I look down the SRD spells/items I'll find spell/items that have effect implementations provided by the public that better automate the provided code/data. ( Yes we can do these by hand, either with dice rolls, or drawing on the map or even paper notes like we would at a real table, or grab a mod or extension. )

As a game developer of many year, I understand its a case of resource/time limits. At the end of the day, would we prefer a fuller automated rule set with just SRD and 'player's handbook'/'DM guild' adding the full features or would we prefer to have access to the massive collection of books and data ?

I'd like to see more effort in implementing new features that come with a 'book', and a review of released books that maybe can have extra 'data' added to them to setup effects that maybe were not available at the time the book was released. ( Yes this is a lot of work, even for one rule set and even more with all supported rule sets. )

Maybe a new requirement of a new 'book', that if it add new 'rules' these must be added to rule set automation or an extension provided with the book ?

I do feel that (some) extensions add features that probably should be built in, and I guess over time this will happen. But as others have hinted at, why should FG implement them while extensions add them ? ( And FG can get on with other features/books which we might want.. )

Maybe the rule sets need to go more open git available, more like linux kernel, and then we can submit code patches to add features to the core, and FG become a gate keeper to 'approve' those into the system ?

I'd like to see access to 'debug/breakpoints' line by line lua, I do not know if this is available in the 'dev' build branch, but I do not think it is. ( Or allow the 'dev' build to support 'remote' debug lua callback setup so we can run and external ide to debug, better than debug via print statements/reload.. )

The Paid issue is up to the creators, but I'd like to see a 'donate' option available on free/paid/developer page of any FG implemented extension/mod 'store'. ( With Minecraft, most of the mods are free, but most are download via 'advert sites' and have 'donate' for developers... But this comes from many years ago before we had as much 'free' with adverts on phone games or the likes of facebook/goggle doing direct tracked adverts to pay their bills.. ) I know when I put my extensions up, as 'pay what you want' on dms guild most people paid nothing, which I think is more a sign of the times, people much more used to 'free' because they expect an advert to pay the bills.. But we do not have that option in FG, as I would hate to see a 'pop-up' in FG on load/client connect that say 'extension 'name' remove advert pop-up only $2' generated per extension.... that would be sad.

I think we all love FG and the unity version is getting much better, and I hope it becomes the main product ( now its more stable and feature rich ) and focus can start to go back to rule set feature fixes/additions. While I'd love to see new 'advanced' features like the 'light level' support process per-character vision ability or maybe animated tokens or maybe 'sound' api functions or been able to pop-out windows onto a different monitor. But I'd would love to see work on more things like the 'offhand' and getting more spells/items/character features programmed up by default..

-pete

[SilentRuin]

You can add a PayPal link to your extensions. Dulux-Oz did that with his Sound extension (the original soundboard that worked with Syrinscape) - if you paid his $5 (AUS) he would email the link.mod that saved you adding in all the URI to FG.

I assume they have a publishing agreement license with SW then. As otherwise, that would not be legal as SW would not be able to get its cut. Or so I understand things. And before people fly off the handle at that - it's their software. Nothing I do in an extension can work without literally being built off the SW proprietary application - so yes, I need to pay my dues if I try to sell it. For free? Fine. Patreon or any other mechanism for making a profit off it without a publishing agreement with SW? Likely not legit.

IMHO based on what I've been told.