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  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    Yes, that is the reality, no one but me is affected by FGU's memory shenanigans. Coming up with easy to reproduce test scenarios is the real issue here. And me following up a whole year after my last post is unnecessarily pushy. I understand.
    I would argue most people are in fact impacted by this. I know me and all 5 of my players are every week when we play.

    We use the application for 3-4 hour sessions. By hour three it becomes a very poor experience. Granted, yes, I can quit and relaunch ask everyone to reconnect, but it’s jarring to do so mid-game.

    I’d be willing to bet this is impacting far more users than just us!

  2. #72
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Its possible that this is affecting more than the two of you. But the tests being used to collect data issue are not representative of RPG game play (ie. who rolls tens of thousands of dice within minutes or even an hour?).

    For those that are exhibiting this issue after hours of game play, they can collect logs and data as shown by Weisroff in this thread and then post here or in their own thread or submit a support ticket. That will indicate to SmiteWorks that this is a problem that actually affects a substantial number of games and supported use cases and they will prioritize accordingly.

    But providing data that shows a program can behave in undesired ways with use cases that are so atypical as to practically be theoretical are not indicative of an issue that needs to be highly prioritized. I'm sure SmiteWorks would be very receptive to data that shows this issue (or any issue) impacts actual game play and provides a means for them to investigate.

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  3. #73
    I can certainly start another thread after my next session with logs from the session. The issue is easy to recreate as it occurs every session after about 3 hours. I’m not sure how useful the logs will be, though.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by seansps View Post
    I would argue most people are in fact impacted by this. I know me and all 5 of my players are every week when we play.

    We use the application for 3-4 hour sessions. By hour three it becomes a very poor experience. Granted, yes, I can quit and relaunch ask everyone to reconnect, but it’s jarring to do so mid-game.

    I’d be willing to bet this is impacting far more users than just us!
    While I have encountered some similar issues (generally more prevalent in PF2 games) I've had no luck so far in really pinpointing any specific causes or generating reliable reproductions of the issues.

    Edit: Restarting the computer before the game may have lessened the strain on RAM somewhat (meaning less crashes) but it's difficult to tell how much of an impact it really is (if any) without more in-depth testing.
    Last edited by stephan_; November 27th, 2021 at 22:37.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    This was one year ago. So after you are done with mandatory new functions like decals and side-buttons when might we expect a development cycle that seriously looks into memory leaks, slowdowns and even operating system breaking flaws?
    What slowdowns and OS breaking flaws? I thought this thread is about opening several megabytes big .txt documents in notepad and wondering why the application crashes... Oh wait, we just need to roll a few thousand rolls per session or open a few hundred or thousand images, glad I don't do that. If you want you can crash most software, nothing is perfect.
    If you'd have taken a real look at the laboratory forum you'd have seen that decals and sidebar are just the visible changes and mostly FGC code is getting thrown away.

    Quote Originally Posted by seansps View Post
    I would argue most people are in fact impacted by this. I know me and all 5 of my players are every week when we play.

    We use the application for 3-4 hour sessions. By hour three it becomes a very poor experience. Granted, yes, I can quit and relaunch ask everyone to reconnect, but it’s jarring to do so mid-game.

    I’d be willing to bet this is impacting far more users than just us!
    So what does your memory say after 3 hours or are you just shooting into the dark? What is a "very poor experience". This can have like a dozen reasons.

    I play two sessions per week (once GM, once player) and have never had crashes or slowdowns since beta which were not reproducable (once had a slowdown on a map with maaany LoS points a year ago). RAM stays at 1.5-2 GB after 4-5 hours. Seems like my software behaves fine.

  6. #76
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    MOD: Let's make sure we keep the discussion constructive and friendly. Experience shows that it is too easy for these threads to take a turn that is undesirable. Thanks.

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
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  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarestia View Post
    What slowdowns and OS breaking flaws? I thought this thread is about opening several megabytes big .txt documents in notepad and wondering why the application crashes... Oh wait, we just need to roll a few thousand rolls per session or open a few hundred or thousand images, glad I don't do that. If you want you can crash most software, nothing is perfect.
    If you'd have taken a real look at the laboratory forum you'd have seen that decals and sidebar are just the visible changes and mostly FGC code is getting thrown away.



    So what does your memory say after 3 hours or are you just shooting into the dark? What is a "very poor experience". This can have like a dozen reasons.

    I play two sessions per week (once GM, once player) and have never had crashes or slowdowns since beta which were not reproducable (once had a slowdown on a map with maaany LoS points a year ago). RAM stays at 1.5-2 GB after 4-5 hours. Seems like my software behaves fine.
    I’m not shooting in the dark. I’m running on a MacBook Pro with 32 GB of RAM. I can take screenshots next time this happens, but FG eats up all my available RAM.

    How long are your sessions? I’ve noticed the slow down happen during longer sessions. (3+ hours) I haven’t been able to pinpoint whether it had to do with sharing images or the chat output, but the chat does seem somewhat related. Do you use maps or just use FG for character sheets and rolling dice?

    I also notice it when I develop modules (usually with FG open for more than 4 hours.) I could of course do more tests.

    The “very poor experience” I have can be described like so:
    - Lag and stuttering when trying to move tokens,
    - Lag when during a zoom in and out on the map
    - Lag when moving a map
    - Lag with the dice animations
    - “Rainbow wheel” lag when trying to roll a die

    Basically it happens when FG tries to do anything graphical. But it really shouldn’t. The machine I use has a decent discrete graphics card and 32 GB of ram.

    I should also mention this is nothing to do with the five minute save interval. The saves are down to 0.1 s.

    Edit: Agree w/ LordEntrails above…

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by seansps View Post
    I would argue most people are in fact impacted by this. I know me and all 5 of my players are every week when we play.

    We use the application for 3-4 hour sessions. By hour three it becomes a very poor experience. Granted, yes, I can quit and relaunch ask everyone to reconnect, but it’s jarring to do so mid-game.

    I’d be willing to bet this is impacting far more users than just us!
    I would agree with this. My usual sessions last right around 3 to 3.5 hours and the last 45 minutes or so the application is chugging as DM.

    Understandably, next to nobody needs to roll a bajillion dice for hours on end, but it illustrates something that probably impacts more people than might be thought.
    "I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."

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    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

  9. #79
    I commonly hit performance issues as well, and have a very beefy PC. They are annoying enough that it makes me consider switching VTTs despite having put hundreds of hours into working on FG extensions and modules for my game.

    And maybe I'm one of the corner cases, since I am running extensions that put more load on FGU (among other things, spitting out a lot more text to the chat log) and creating abnormally large (but not unreasonably large., IMO) data modules. But the ability to write and use extensions to customize my experience and add automation is specifically why I chose Fantasy Grounds over something like Roll20, so it can be a little frustrating to hear "Well, people who don't use extensions and keep their campaign sizes small and use small maps (which is most people, apparently) are mostly fine".

    I understand that an extension itself can be coded poorly and cause strain on the system, and that's not FGUs fault. But I'm also careful to test my issues with no extensions running before I complain about them. I just want to make that clear.

    Anyway, just adding one more voice that I'm seeing FGU performance problems, they are negatively impacting the gaming experience for me and my players, and it is constantly making me reevaluate whether or not I should make the switch to another VTT. While the testing shown in this thread is indeed "edge cases", that's usually how the best testing works... you slam the edge cases hard to make the issue more pronounced and easier to find. People responding that "nobody rolls 300,000 dice a session, so this isn't a real case" (or whatever) seem to be missing the point that that was just a test case to make the problem more pronounced... the problem is likely still there and contributing to the general performance woes during normal usage. For example, saving to DB was recently improved, but a few months ago saving worked great up to about 5MB on my campaign size. Past that, that every-5-minutes autosave caused a noticeable slowdown. At 15 MB in my module, I was waiting about a minute every 5 minutes. 15 MB doesn't seem unreasonable... and it was occasionally noticeable even at 5MB. If I'd put out a test case at 200 MB and shown it took 15 minutes to save, people might say "Oh, no one has a 200 MB campaign, no big deal!" but as you can see, the problem was real and noticeable well before that. It's hard to figure out where exactly that line is where it goes from unnoticeable to problematic (on my system, again, 5MB seemed to be about the place), so exaggerated tests cases make things a lot more apparent and easy for the devs to find.

    It's frustrating that every time one of these performance threads come up, there's a few specific users always jump up to defend the app and basically say "Sorry that's happening to you, but it's a minor issue and you're a corner case, so please just trust the devs who haven't even responded yet to fix it if they think they should". Smiteworks are quite capable of chiming in on the thread themselves (like they did!) and don't need a bunch of people rushing to their defense. In one thread it's not a big deal, but when you look across many bug report threads and see the same people constantly defending or downplaying every problem, usually before anyone from Smiteworks has even posted a response, it feels like a problematic pattern that makes those with real concerns feel like they're being told to just shut up and suffer.

    Those of us complaining about issues DO realize that a company's going to make the best choice for it's bottom line. If MoonWizard or ddavidson or whoever says "Yeah, that's just not high enough priority for us now", we actually do understand. We might be sad about it and it might affect whether or not we continue to use the tool, but we really do get it. We don't need to be constantly reminded by non-employees every time we bring up another issue or add more data to the report. We get that you love Fantasy Grounds and don't want to see it trash talked. Please understand, though, we aren't trash talking it. We're still here and making these reports because we love it too and want to see it get even better.
    Last edited by Sterno; November 30th, 2021 at 20:16.

  10. #80
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    This thread has moved away from detailed information about a memory hole in chat, to a generic discussion about performance issues. As has been mentioned in the beginning of the thread, there is a test case showing memory increase due to excessive dice rolls in chat.

    If users are experiencing a slowdown in their games over time, it's more than likely that it's not being caused by thousands of dice rolls (as done in the test cases earlier in this thread) but probably by other causes. To have the same number of dice rolls as in the test cases in this thread would require, in a four hour session, two dice rolls every three seconds - which doesn't happen for any prolonged period in a standard game.

    Therefore, I suggest that when users see a slowdown in their game that they check their memory use - has it been steadily growing to significant levels? Is it excessively high? Then we can see if your issues might be being caused by high memory use, or something else.
    Last edited by Trenloe; November 30th, 2021 at 20:37.
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