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  1. #1

    New users in FGU should understand extensions

    I feel with the number of new users coming into FGU that there should be some sort of warning about the what extensions are and the inherent risks in them. Don't get me wrong - I love extensions. They help smooth over the annoying bits in FGU when I feel something is lacking. And while I understand old hands all understand the risks in extensions and accept them - I think new users should follow the following rule of thumbs before they dive into use of them.

    1) Use standard FGU. If you find some feature lacking or missing that you wish the base code supported - then look at extensions for that thing.
    2) If you have a programmers skill and desire, learn to code and write an extension for that feature.
    3) If you have no desire to code your own extension:
    a) Check the FG forums for a free extension that does the job. Make sure it works in FGU.
    b) Check for paid extension that does the job. Make sure it works in FGU.
    4) Understand the risks in using extensions.

    I've added the following text to ALL of the extensions I maintain - community and paid. New users should understand and accept the risks of using extensions if they plan to use them.

    Extensions = RISK: This note is added to all the extensions I maintain. I want users to understand that extensions are code that is added to or overrides portions of code in the Fantasy Grounds Unity (FGU) application. When the underlying code in FGU changes it can break an extension. When you run with other extensions they can conflict by trying to overwrite the same parts of the FGU code. I will keep my extensions working with FGU changes, and the extensions I use (listed in my FGU signature) as I have direct control over those things. I cannot make the same promise with other extensions. If I am notified of an incompatibility I will attempt to resolve it - but if I cannot I will list what the known extension incompatibilities are. Understand before you get any extensions that it comes with RISK. Not just my extensions - any extension.

  2. #2
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Yes, new users should understand the pro's and con's of extensions

    I will add two things about extensions that everyone who uses them should be aware of;
    1) Extensions do not update themselves, you must maintain (update) them yourself. One thing this means is that when core FG updates, you need to expect (or not be surprised) your extensions to not work properly until the authors have had a chance to test and update them.
    2) When you run into problems, issues or errors, you really need to test FG with your extensions disabled before reporting a bug. Please try to identify which extension(s) the issue is linked to and post the issue in the correct thread for that/those extension(s).

  3. #3

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    While there are always noobs, and we do need to help look out for them.
    On this particular front i do not belvei it is that major of a deal, as mods/extensions/add-ons is basically a ubiquitous concept to PC software and video games today.

    True a total unaware of those things noob can show up here, but the odds of getting to here while reaming blissfully unaware of the general concept is probably not real high.

    As well this kind of thing will almost always fall to the community to do. As the product being sold could undermine its own sales pitch a bit if they give an appearance of being too reliant on community made mods to put the actual use value into what they are charging money for.

    It is a tricky line to walk to want to show off that you have mod-ability to flex and extend function past factory stock. While still show off that what does come stock is actually a good value in and of itself without considering the possibility of using mods.

    So the feature that it can be modded will be in the marketing materials, but generally speaking you wont find a lot of company provided materials that make front and center the modding and how that relates to making use of mods (that you might want or need them because that feature is not part of the core product to start with) as much as it will about how to implement your own mods(dream up anything you want and do ti, but that's not saying anything about what we might lack that you might have to do yourself that you might have imagined would be intrinsic to the paid for product).
    Last edited by A Social Yeti; October 24th, 2020 at 20:42. Reason: spelling

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by A Social Yeti View Post
    While there are always noobs, and we do need to help look out for them.
    On this particular front i do not belvei it is that major of a deal, as mods/extensions/add-ons is basically a ubiquitous concept to PC software and video games today.

    True a total unaware of those things noob can show up here, but the odds of getting to here while reaming blissfully unaware of the general concept is probably not real high.

    As well this kind of thing will almost always fall to the community to do. As the product being sold could undermine its own sales pitch a bit if they give an appearance of being too reliant on community made mods to put the actual use value into what they are charging money for.

    It is a tricky line to walk to want to show off that you have mod-ability to flex and extend function past factory stock. While still show off that what does come stock is actually a good value in and of itself without considering the possibility of using mods.

    So the feature that it can be modded will be in the marketing materials, but generally speaking you wont find a lot of company provided materials that make front and center the modding and how that relates to making use of mods (that you might want or need them because that feature is not part of the core product to start with) as much as it will about how to implement your own mods(dream up anything you want and do ti, but that's not saying anything about what we might lack that you might have to do yourself that you might have imagined would be intrinsic to the paid for product).
    It's for sure not a major deal to people who do not own the FGU product, use extensions, or write extensions within it. Based on our past conversations that would be you correct? Your past interactions with me have been all about your disappointment in FGU as a paid application, in one form or another. So I admit reading your comments about "not part of the core product to start with" and "might have imagined would be intrinsic to the paid product" makes me wonder if this is you implying your disappointment again?

    This thread is basically impressing on people Extensions=Risk. IN the context of FGU - not some broad generalized statement of all add-ons in the software world. It's not a slam on FGU - and hopefully won't become a vehicle as a slam on FGU. Its simply one noob's opinion (me) about extensions here. I've only been here since June so can't really claim not to be a noob myself.

    As far as "this kind of thing will almost always fall to the community to do"...

    Agreed. Why I posted it.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
    It's for sure not a major deal to people who do not own the FGU product, use extensions, or write extensions within it. Based on our past conversations that would be you correct? Your past interactions with me have been all about your disappointment in FGU as a paid application, in one form or another. So I admit reading your comments about "not part of the core product to start with" and "might have imagined would be intrinsic to the paid product" makes me wonder if this is you implying your disappointment again?

    This thread is basically impressing on people Extensions=Risk. IN the context of FGU - not some broad generalized statement of all add-ons in the software world. It's not a slam on FGU - and hopefully won't become a vehicle as a slam on FGU. Its simply one noob's opinion (me) about extensions here. I've only been here since June so can't really claim not to be a noob myself.

    As far as "this kind of thing will almost always fall to the community to do"...

    Agreed. Why I posted it.

    If you read my design critiques as just wanting to express disappointment i don't really know what to tell you. I try to write as my POV is, but the reader is ultimately most in charge of the voice they read in for someone.

    And was merely replying to assuage any emotional discomfort (worry/concern) you might have been experiencing when considering the impact of not understanding extensions in general for noobs, and how it was FG seems to have not made some of that important need to know information more front and center in their own materials.

    And i have a certain vocabulary due to my xp in the field of design and development. So critique, or just explaining situations to others, i would still have that same vocabulary.

    So no i was not posting here just to belly ache more as you wonder, but to be a participatory member of a community.
    Last edited by A Social Yeti; October 25th, 2020 at 01:00. Reason: spelling corrects

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by A Social Yeti View Post
    If you read my design critiques as just wanting to express disappointment i don't really know what to tell you. I try to write as my POV is, but the reader is ultimately most in charge of the voice they read in for someone.

    And was merely replying to assuage any emotional discomfort (worry/concern) you might have been experiencing when considering the impact of not understanding extensions in general for noobs, and how it was FG seems to have not made some of that important need to know information more front and center in their own materials.

    And i have a certain vocabulary due to my xp in the field of design and development. So critique, or just explaining situations to others, i would still have that same vocabulary.

    So no i was not posting here just to belly ache more as you wonder, but to be a participatory member of a community.
    Critiques are always welcome and appreciated.

    But I'm not really sure what your doing is a critique. More statements on how you believe things are without actually having any experience with them. I mean use of the FGU application as a host and using extensions and writing extensions for your campaign. I mean before June I could have told you loads about programming in numerous environments based on my experiences. But I could not have described this one - as I had not actually experienced it.

    You can, more power to you in that case. Probably it's just the way you word things that makes me think its not really a critique from my POV. Certainly I can fully admit I might be wrong. If so you have my apologies.

    I will try and contain my "emotional discomfort" over your way of phrasing things in the future

  7. #7
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Let me say that the OP here is very useful. Regardless of any assumptions, we see questions and issues frequently from other users on this forum and in various Discord channels with folks who don't know that using extensions = risk.

    More than once we have had users report bugs in FG when they have had 40-50 extensions loaded and not understand that many extensions can not work together. Many times (thousands) of times we have had users report bugs and think FG is broken when the issue was identified to be from an extension. Many times we have had users report issues because they did not know they had to manually update their extensions. ...etc...

    We must remember, the users of FG are from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, from perhaps every experience and background. Many of them have very little computer experience or even competence. Many are not (other than FG) computer gamers. IMO, many of them will find the OP of this useful. Lets try to make sure the rest of this thread can be as useful.

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