5E Product Walkthrough Playlist
Page 2 of 2 First 12
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    USA west coast, PDT/UTC-8
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
    I think you read more into it than I did when I looked into FGU. Not sure how you came up with that interpretation - but it's not some seamless unified product for creators and GM. GM's can be creators - for sure I add in images (token/maps-LOS), storyline, etc. on the fly in my campaign every week as part of prep work for my canned bought Curse of Strahd module. It can be a lot of work but adds flavor into FGU interpretation of it. And if I want to make an extension - it has very little to do with FGU the product and everything to do with unity dev document, notepad++, unpacking and searching through existing lua and xml code, and using the FG forums here to ask questions. For absolute sure its not some unified product in the actual FGU product to do that sort of thing. Nor did I come into this with some misconception on that point that it was.

    Can I build my own maps, tokens, storyline content, and tie them all together in FGU? Sure.

    Albert Einstein never manage to come up with a unified field theory in physics, and FGU (and other products I'm aware of) have not found a unified codeset for creators, GM's and players. Just tools.

    If you thought otherwise, you were mistaken.

    And if you found some other product that managed to do it? Go for it! Because that will be impressive.


    I probably used "unified tool kit' in a way that allowed you to include more in that to had imagined.
    I would not have imagined any kind of significant art/draw app tool.

    I was meaning to describe the story work. Events flow, and character relationship stuff. The stuff that really facilitates to create and hold onto all the threads of a complicated story/world.
    And how the system that is a database of columned data, has no end user functional to allow them to control the organization of that data.


    So "unified kit" did not mean to say every single tool i ever use to get from an idea in my head to the table for players. It meant to say, unify the structure and story organizational aspects of content creation for the GM.
    And importantly on this one, In a module like Out of the Abyss. Where the GM picks some of the stuff to do and maybe not all of it and that's not stuff laid out in an explicit time line flow, but it will in fact be experienced by the players in an explicit time line flow.
    Then being able to have events ordered one way in one window for the GM while being ordered in a time line flow of events for the players in another window would be really useful.

    And if this one capacity is in, the functionality required for it is present to be leveraged for many otehr uses too.




    Does this sound a reasonable deign concept:

    For DnD 5e, all the info a typical GM and player group could ever need or want is by far more of the time most intuitive and organizational quick to retrieve, if all that data is only ever displayed by a single column of data in a fixed 0-1, A-Z order?

    OR
    might a GM and players find it useful to be able to control the information flow/ordering in whatever way works best for them?


    I can't exactly say that a GM only having the data from an epic module in a statically fixed alphabetical order seems nearly as useful as being able to order the display of information as a flow of time line events to the players.
    Or that only seeing any of the data groups, maps, NPCs, etc only by the one alphabetical name is really all that useful. The grouping type aspects helps a little but not nearly as much as actuality getting order control. BY any column of data.

    And it is basiaclly that FG seems to not take advantage of what a data base is and can do, to better facilitate the work of a GM and the display of data to the players.

    That's maybe more of what i am noticing, we are a database and so a lot of functionality of story flow and event/character relationships and data display organization could be here, and would be really useful as a GM (both in running and creating), but the design seems to have explicitly eschewed those functions.
    Last edited by A Social Yeti; October 22nd, 2020 at 19:19.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by A Social Yeti View Post
    I probably used "unified tool kit' in a way that allowed you to include more in that to had imagined.
    I would not have imagined any kind of significant art/draw app tool.

    I was meaning to describe the story work. Events flow, and character relationship stuff. The stuff that really facilitates to create and hold onto all the threads of a complicated story/world.
    And how the system that is a database of columned data, has no end user functional to allow them to control the organization of that data.


    So "unified kit" did not mean to say every single tool i ever use to get from an idea in my head to the table for players. It meant to say, unify the structure and story organizational aspects of content creation for the GM.
    And importantly on this one, In a module like Out of the Abyss. Where the GM picks some of the stuff to do and maybe not all of it and that's not stuff laid out in an explicit time line flow, but it will in fact be experienced by the players in an explicit time line flow.
    Then being able to have events ordered one way in one window for the GM while being ordered in a time line flow of events for the players in another window would be really useful.

    And if this one capacity is in, the functionality required for it is present to be leveraged for many otehr uses too.




    Does this sound a reasonable deign concept:

    For DnD 5e, all the info a typical GM and player group could ever need or want is by far more of the time most intuitive and organizational quick to retrieve, if all that data is only ever displayed by a single column of data in a fixed 0-1, A-Z order?

    OR
    might a GM and players find it useful to be able to control the information flow/ordering in whatever way works best for them?


    I can't exactly say that a GM only having the data from an epic module in a statically fixed alphabetical order seems nearly as useful as being able to order the display of information as a flow of time line events to the players.
    Or that only seeing any of the data groups, maps, NPCs, etc only by the one alphabetical name is really all that useful. The grouping type aspects helps a little but not nearly as much as actuality getting order control. BY any column of data.

    And it is basiaclly that FG seems to not take advantage of what a data base is and can do, to better facilitate the work of a GM and the display of data to the players.
    Fair enough on the "unified tool kit" clarification.

    As far as the timeline organization - having done storylines and such in FGU for my own players - I'm not sure what you mean. The toolkit they provide is driven largely by text and links. My timeline - when I make my story lines - is based on how I link my stories and images together within the text. And by link I mean image/map/other storytext/NPC stat block/encounters/parcels/tables/etc. The timeline on how that is all linked together is in how I put down the sequence of links and story text.

    So I probably need clarification on what you mean by them providing flow/ordering. I mean, as the designer of my story/module whatever you want to call it - only I know the timeline, sequence of events, or possible branches in the storyline. How I put the links and to what and where they lead is how the timeline or potential branching of my adventure happens. I admit I'm not much on the random directions of branching of story so mine are more action oriented than some table generated link that determines the next part of the story - but nothing says you can't make your links do and lead where and how you want them to carry the story forward.

    I guess I'm not sure how any "tool" could do that for me. I have to do those things. And there are too many variables on where I might want to take the story line or how I want to do it - to make any single tool to do it for me. The text/links pretty much are up to me to use and design things the way I want them to go.

    So really still not sure on the toolkit your wanting here. For sure there are extensions I've read about that make the organization aspect easier for GM's - I've not really looked at those much though as I prefer to have my own clear path and branches the way I want them.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    USA west coast, PDT/UTC-8
    Posts
    85
    The "high lvl POV' tool is what i would say i am trying to describe here.

    When you do this:
    "The timeline on how that is all linked together is in how I put down the sequence of links and story text. "

    You are at the details lvl of the story flow.
    You can't see from this POV what the out in the future advance branches are you have to click all the way through to them for the single detailed events.

    So how was it you were doing the, put it in the game, in the right order part? How was it you were keeping track of that higher lvl POV that helps you know when and where what branches in one stage are going to be related to something else much later on down the line?

    However it is you are doing that is all on you, this FG tool is not helping facilitate that aspect of the process. And that high lvl POV can really help a lot in the creation process of complicated big wold story lines that have many interacting threads, lots of if/then story flow statements. And a very basic type of flow chart lay out tool is what would help with that. And the branching ticks the players do and do not do can easily pipe into a displayed time line order of events for everyone to have.

  4. #14
    LordEntrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    -7 UTC
    Posts
    12,819
    Blog Entries
    9
    If someone wanted to make the graphics, or find them elsewhere, you could easily use FGU images to make a flow chart. All you would need are some boxes / ovals / diamonds to place around, connect them with arrows and them put text in them (and you could them even place pins to story details etc as links).

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by A Social Yeti View Post
    The "high lvl POV' tool is what i would say i am trying to describe here.

    When you do this:
    "The timeline on how that is all linked together is in how I put down the sequence of links and story text. "

    You are at the details lvl of the story flow.
    You can't see from this POV what the out in the future advance branches are you have to click all the way through to them for the single detailed events.

    So how was it you were doing the, put it in the game, in the right order part? How was it you were keeping track of that higher lvl POV that helps you know when and where what branches in one stage are going to be related to something else much later on down the line?

    However it is you are doing that is all on you, this FG tool is not helping facilitate that aspect of the process. And that high lvl POV can really help a lot in the creation process of complicated big wold story lines that have many interacting threads, lots of if/then story flow statements. And a very basic type of flow chart lay out tool is what would help with that. And the branching ticks the players do and do not do can easily pipe into a displayed time line order of events for everyone to have.
    I am a DM (I refuse to use the term GM). A "story" is a section that tells a story weaves an adventure. How the over arching adventure plays out - the world if you would - is tied together by links on a map - which in turn is tied together by story text with the links to the map(s). You are correct that the interactions are up to me and how I design them or what discreet story pieces I weave together in the timeline of my choosing (actions usually I as stated).

    I can see how a high lvl POV would be interesting in seeing how the overall story worked - but as a DM - its not really my concern when I start the adventure. I have a point with branches. The players or past actions and current actions determine what branches are available to go in. I'm in the moment. I'm playing out the game. I don't need or want an interesting high lvl POV to show me where things will potentially go if they take this particular path - because If I've done my job right - that will be like a genealogy tree of life with too many branches all being in a rather fixed historical perspective as if you've already followed those paths. If that's how you like running your adventures - then I suppose a tool like that would be interesting and give you and idea of how it was all laid out. But you'd still have to traverse it all if you wanted to understand it all. So one way or another - as a DM - I'm going to have to understand the entire arc of storylines by looking at them all - or... live in the moment. And make sure they are linked and branched together so that when my adventurers choose a path whether it be fixed, based on past actions, based on current actions, or simple random choice - it smoothly leads me to the information I need to take them their and play it out. That is storyline and links and how they mesh together.

    I'm running curse of strahd right now for example, and I had to first understand the various storylines that were in it - then add my own storyline links and maps to flesh out a better transition so during live gameplay I did not have to try and look everything up on the fly. Ideally - a module would be smoothly done in its transitions and information available at game time. But nothing will ever allow you, as a DM, not to do prep work before each session. Or not in my experience anyway. So while a high lvl POV would be interesting if I were shopping for some module to see in a high level overview where it went - it would not help me at go live time.

    Or if I were designing my own adventure - as the key to that would be how I wove my branching's and transitions together. Story text and links.

    You might look into extensions as there may be something out there already - but I don't really know as I have no real interest in the overview aspect. My priorities are how hard or easy the branches and transitions have been done with information (maps/encounters/parcels/etc.) readily available during live play.
    Last edited by SilentRuin; October 22nd, 2020 at 19:59.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
PF2E Playlist

Log in

Log in