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  1. #11
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyler View Post
    You can see other player rolls in FGC correct? At least when we play we can. Why would this change?
    Because the dice roll mechanics in Unity are a lot more complex. A lot of information would need to be send to a lot of players in order to accomplish what is a pretty complex architecture - and would more than likely cause a lot of lag on the dice rolls (which with my internet is bad enough as it is).
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea to the wish list http://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    Because the dice roll mechanics in Unity are a lot more complex. A lot of information would need to be send to a lot of players in order to accomplish what is a pretty complex architecture - and would more than likely cause a lot of lag on the dice rolls (which with my internet is bad enough as it is).
    This is why the design here makes me scratch my head and wonder, "what were they thinking/why was this the good idea to them?"
    It just does not make sense to me as is.

    They went through a lot of effort to make those dice roll, so the one person rolling them could watch it go on alone in a vacuum away from all the other players at the table?

    I can't imagine this as a design that provides useful value to the players for all the programing effort and CPU time it takes.

    It would'a been way more players at table sharing in the moment exciting/interesting, to watch a pRNG wheel spin animation or whatever, at least together as the group.
    Then to get physics dice rolls alone.

    So it seems a waste of effort in deign for how it's a basically solo player game feature (watch my die roll alone) injected into a group played game part where we'd all be watching in anticipation together, and white knuckling over the tilty hit/miss we can see wobbling on top.


    We do have that moment of tilty die time, that winds up feeling empty and missed compared to the IRL table top, cause we don't share in it with anyone.

    So the only thing that the physics roll dice could'a been stand in for from IRL, does not go on as long as the player rolling can't share in that moment with anyone else. Any kind of shared in, what's it going to be moment, is what we get at the table. And FG does not have that, it thought we just personally had so much fun watching the die roll alone on our own that all the effort was put in so we can solo watch the dice roll?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    Because the dice roll mechanics in Unity are a lot more complex. A lot of information would need to be send to a lot of players in order to accomplish what is a pretty complex architecture - and would more than likely cause a lot of lag on the dice rolls (which with my internet is bad enough as it is).
    I shouldn't, really, in the best case - they should only have to send the number seed/position and have each client roll the dice locally. Similar to what happens when you double click on a dice rolling field in FGC.

  4. #14
    I don't know anything about the technical limitations, but it seems to me like this is something that was definitely a downgrade from FGC. I think this should be a higher priority than a lot of the "bells and whistles" that are so commonly asked for around here. This is basic functionality a virtual table top software should have.

  5. #15
    as VTT is used to be a shared experience, having players see what other players roll (visible dice) is very important.
    Every week my players always complain about this especially when crit / fumble are rolled.

    I can understand that this may not be important to some, but why the option isnt included seems a HUGE oversight to me.

  6. #16
    I am still mainly using FGC but would it be possible to have the shadow effect go on until the dice reveal happens then have it appear to all of the clients with the value of the dice roll? Whoever is the roller would still see the "real" dice.
    If you want a Wishlist in the Fantasy grounds store klick the link and upvote it.
    http://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=118601

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granamere View Post
    I am still mainly using FGC but would it be possible to have the shadow effect go on until the dice reveal happens then have it appear to all of the clients with the value of the dice roll? Whoever is the roller would still see the "real" dice.
    That's would not be the table sharing in the excitement of the actual dice rolling.

    You know the wobbly die that holds for a second on the 20/2 edge and we can all see it may roll either way, and that split second that seems to last for a minuet and the whole table gasps or cheers together as they watch it happen.

    There is no actual difference between the feed printing "miss" or "hit" for us to read, than to just show us an image of a die with a number on it, after the roll.

    That's why i described that a pRNG number scramble or spinner or any other version where the whole table actually gets to watch together would be a superior design choice, to the physics simulated die roll we share in the moment of with no one.

    We all watch it happen and anticipate together, that's it that the feature we get at the table that is part of the shared excitement of the play, that the virtual table design explicitly skipped out on?
    It is the kind of design that would make me ask: Did the people that made that ever actually play at a real life RP table? It is one of the things shared in by the players and to choose to not have it is a real head scratcher to me.

    Especially so after i notice how the die rolled so real and did the whole actually tiltly crit/miss stuff. They had to go through a good bit of effort to do that, for what? Watching that alone, sharing it with no one? I am genuinely baffled as to why this was considered better than a pRNG we could all share in the anticipation excitement moment.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Social Yeti View Post
    That's would not be the table sharing in the excitement of the actual dice rolling.

    You know the wobbly die that holds for a second on the 20/2 edge and we can all see it may roll either way, and that split second that seems to last for a minuet and the whole table gasps or cheers together as they watch it happen.

    There is no actual difference between the feed printing "miss" or "hit" for us to read, than to just show us an image of a die with a number on it, after the roll.

    That's why i described that a pRNG number scramble or spinner or any other version where the whole table actually gets to watch together would be a superior design choice, to the physics simulated die roll we share in the moment of with no one.

    We all watch it happen and anticipate together, that's it that the feature we get at the table that is part of the shared excitement of the play, that the virtual table design explicitly skipped out on?
    It is the kind of design that would make me ask: Did the people that made that ever actually play at a real life RP table? It is one of the things shared in by the players and to choose to not have it is a real head scratcher to me.

    Especially so after i notice how the die rolled so real and did the whole actually tiltly crit/miss stuff. They had to go through a good bit of effort to do that, for what? Watching that alone, sharing it with no one? I am genuinely baffled as to why this was considered better than a pRNG we could all share in the anticipation excitement moment.
    As Zacchaeus said, there was once an explanation for this, and when I remember it correctly, it is not possible anymore with Unity to simply send the seeds to each other and let the computers do all their simulation as in FGC. But I do not remember the reason anymore, and maybe I completely mix that up But I remember that Moon Wizard said they will look at that again, just not for release

    For me personally I do not need shared dice, even at a table I never cared for the rolls of the other players, I normally just wait for until they said there result (as player or GM) So, for me personally there is no difference in the feeling But I can understand the excitement when one is interested into that So, I hope that it will be changed for you all then

  9. #19
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    Mention seed numbers reminded me that there was a discussion about precision. If I remember correctly and all that... FGU uses a 32 bit random number seed for the random dice generation. But the current function (OOB?) that sends the seeds between clients only supports 16 bit numbers. So, without that function being updated, different results would show up on the clients who didn't make the actual roll.

    As said, it's valuable and would be looked at, but it doesn't make sense to me to hold up full release to resolve or re-implement this feature.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    ...it doesn't make sense to me to hold up full release to resolve or re-implement this feature.
    I don't think anyone here is making an argument for that. As far as I'm concerned FGU has been fully operational and ready for release for some time.

    I do however think that this was never reported as a "Known Difference" from FGC and I believe it should jump to the top of the list of things to remedy. I didn't realize it was happening because my players never said anything and it's not visible from the GM side (or as a GM also running a Player instance). That said, if I had known I would have been beating on this drum throughout the beta. The 3D dice rolling visuals are a huge part of what makes FG great and I think this issue really harms the product.

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