5E - Theogeek's Improved Critical

[TheoGeek]

Is it related to this? I had another person asking about PF2 and this is what I found out (which I didn't expect):

"So, with no extensions loaded and "stock" PF2 rules, a critical hit with a bastard sword results in this damage...

Rolled 2d8 damage, the normal damage dice rolled a 3, and the critical damage dice rolled a 4). The damage output is:

Damage (M) Bastard Sword [CRITICAL] [TYPE: slashing (1d8+4=7)] [TYPE: slashing,critical (I1d8+4=8)] for a total damage of 15 (3+4 + 4+4)

Looks like the PF2 rules add the modifier to the critical damage as well, which is going to be a lot harder to remove since the ruleset adds it. My extension works with the roll the the ruleset gives it and just bumps the damage
so I'm not sure what it would take to recreate the entire roll to remove the modifier. It might not take much, but it would diverge from the ruleset more."

I'm using the PF2 SRD so that may be why? I don't own any PF2 rulesets.

[spoonhead]

The modifier should be added to the crit die, it's just that in my example the modifier became 8 not 4 as expected.

In the example below: 1st roll, normal damage correct, 3rd roll, (all options off), crit roll correct, except damage isn't really doubled. 2nd roll, with crit die off, and double dice, the dice rolls themselves are correct, but the modifier damage should be 8 not 16.

[TheoGeek]

Ah...I can look into that. It's just doubling everything like the old 2E house rule. So if the total damage was 11 after bonuses (1+2+8=11), the doubled damage would be 22.

If I can make it work, I'd likely change the Double Damage options to be: "rolled dice | all damage | no damage" or something like that.

[spoonhead]

That should be the case. Just be careful that any extra damage on a critical due to a weapon trait isn't doubled, as in the deadly trait above.

[TheoGeek]

OK. It may take a bit...parsing the damage string can get funny.

[spoonhead]

Here are the RAW from the Core rulebook.

Sometimes you’ll need to halve or double an amount of damage, such as when the outcome of your Strike is a critical hit, or when you succeed at a basic Reflex save against a spell. When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.

My highlighting in bold

[TheoGeek]

OK, so the options are kind of meant to override the RAW behavior. If you select "double damage" then I'd expect everything to be doubled. If you don't select "double damage", then it should behave as above unless the FGU PF2 ruleset doesn't do that. How are crits handled in the PF2 ruleset with no extensions loaded?

[spoonhead]

OK, so the options are kind of meant to override the RAW behavior. If you select "double damage" then I'd expect everything to be doubled. If you don't select "double damage", then it should behave as above unless the FGU PF2 ruleset doesn't do that. How are crits handled in the PF2 ruleset with no extensions loaded?

As per the 3rd roll in post #72 above.

[TheoGeek]

Ah, I misread your comment. The bolded text is related to "IF your GM allows you to double rolls THEN benefits you gain from crits aren't doubled."

So the expectation would be that if someone familiar with PF would see "Double Damage" as an option, they would expect it to follow that rule.

If you're willing, I'd like to use you as a tester.

[spoonhead]

Actually it's the other way round. Normal rule is double damage, but at the moment FGU just doubles the number of dice and doubles the bonus (which is the option part of the rules).

Additional benefits from crits aren't doubled in either option.