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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRevocateur View Post
    If the idea is to make 2E sharable, why use OSRIC as the base for the data and not For Gold & Glory, since FG&G is the OGL implementation of 2E specifically?

    Obviously you've already started the work, so I'm not suggesting a change mid-stream, just curious why you're implementing 1E instead of 2E data.
    Can't speak for Sterno but I can tell you, mechanically,as far as the ruleset is concerned, they are same. OSRIC has far more support than any other "AD&D" OGL style out there.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRevocateur View Post
    If the idea is to make 2E sharable, why use OSRIC as the base for the data and not For Gold & Glory, since FG&G is the OGL implementation of 2E specifically?

    Obviously you've already started the work, so I'm not suggesting a change mid-stream, just curious why you're implementing 1E instead of 2E data.
    I want to do both, actually, but I started with OSRIC because Fantasy Grounds is publishing content for Advanced Adventures, which is based on OSRIC. I thought it would be helpful for anyone who is working on those adventures, since due to licensing, the 2E monsters can't be included.

    I kind of stalled out though because I'd been working on the NPCs, had a hard drive failure, lost my work on them, and haven't had the motivation to restart it yet.
    Last edited by Sterno; December 15th, 2020 at 02:01.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterno View Post
    I want to do both, actually, but I started with OSRIC because Fantasy Grounds is publishing content for Advanced Adventures, which is based on OSRIC.
    Ah, that's logical. Thank you for the answer.

  4. #14
    Hey, this is great Sterno. I am running a Blackmoor campaign and I was using a number of older community mods for 1E and OSRIC (races, classes). The Monster mod I am using is incomplete and buggy. I understand (more or less) the xml format, so if you want to divvy up some of the npc work I would take it on. I am swapping out the older mods for yours now.

  5. #15
    For what it's worth, your post motivated me to start working on the NPCs again, so I've been working on that all morning and have some spare time for the next few days where I might just be able to crank the whole thing out. I'll keep you posted!

    And I'm still waffling a bit on exactly what I want to use for Thac0, XP value, and saving throws of OSRIC monsters. The "truest" OSRIC experience would be me using their attack matrix to determine Thac0, their saves, and their method of calculating XP, but to make it more of a "2E conversion" would be to use 2E's charts for that stuff.

    Saves will almost definitely just use the 2E charts because that's coded into the ruleset and going against it is actually kind of a pain (any time you set HD on a NPC, it automatically updates saves based on 2E charts). Overall I don't think it matters much so isn't worth the work of individually overriding all those (and risking they get changed back automatically anyway).

    For XP value, I was originally planning on using 2E's formulas, but after working on monsters for a bit I'm leaning towards using OSRIC's formulas, because there's less subjectivity involved on my end when trying to convert to 2E, and in the long run, I don't think this one matters much either.

    Thac0 for monsters is the toughest decision. In general, the Thac0 for a monster in OSRIC is 1 to 2 points better than it would be in AD&D 2E. I'll probably end up going with OSRIC Thac0s though since I already used those for the OSRIC classes, and having the classes use one progression and the NPCs use a different one feels wrong. Even then, there's some subjectivity on exactly what the Thac0 should be, when you've got things like a Merchant which I guess is technically a 1 HD monster but only has a 1d6 hit die and, if actually using monster attack matrix tables, would be the equivalent of a 2nd level fighter. That doesn't feel right, so I'm making some calls when it comes to human-type "monsters". Probably won't make everyone happy, but people can always edit it themselves (all 4 people who end up using this!)

    Looking forward to moving on to a For Gold & Glory conversion where I don't have to make any decisions or interpretations!
    Last edited by Sterno; December 31st, 2020 at 18:17.

  6. #16
    Well this is great news. I just fixed all the class attack matrices for character advancement using 1E extensions (they were all set at 20 across the board). Is there somewhere I can up load the fixed mod?

    Also - I am good with the OSRIC choice - just as long as it is explicitly noted somewhere. It will impact adventure module designers mostly in terms of providing balanced encounters.

    Here is the modded file https://drive.google.com/file/d/16oR...ew?usp=sharing

    I normally use git for stuff like this. I am a professional developer (C++) if that helps.
    Last edited by dimonic; January 1st, 2021 at 17:23.

  7. #17
    Fixed them where? Just double-checked my module and they're definitely not 20 across the board. Below I'm showing what the level 4 Fighter Thac0 would be (17).



    Edit: I did just notice that Thief/Assassin/Magic-User/Illusionist are set to start at Thac0 21 and not 20 in the module. I had decided to extrapolate what a real "Thac0" might be since it uses an attack matrix and not a Thac0 in OSRIC (because 20 can hit 6 different ACs in OSRIC, and the 2E ruleset doesn't support that). Is that what you're talking about? A problem that occurs if I change, say, a Magic-User Thac0 to be 20 instead of 21 is that it means they now only need a 19 to hit AC 1 instead of a 20, because the ruleset uses Thac0 math instead of attack matrixes.
    Last edited by Sterno; January 1st, 2021 at 18:29.

  8. #18
    I am using the 1E extension, and if you peek at the code, you will see that all the attack matrices are 20s across the board. I replace them all with the appropriate numbers (since as you say, in 1E the 20 can hit 6 different ACs). They work for me now. That is what I posted. You can do a "diff" to see exactly what I changed.

    The 1E extension utilises the matrix, which 2E does not.

    thief-matrix.png

    As opposed to

    thief thac0.png

    Edit:
    Here is the combat matrix from the advancement table:

    thief combat matrix.png

    Here is your original mod code:

    sterno-osric attack matrix.png

    Here is the same section modified:

    updated attack matrix.png
    Last edited by dimonic; January 1st, 2021 at 22:29. Reason: Added source code examples

  9. #19
    Okay, I see what you mean now. Yeah, I didn't load that extension and then fill that stuff out because this was specifically meant to be an "OSRIC for 2E" conversion, not a recreation of the actual OSRIC ruleset. I've never actually tried that extension out before.

    I could see about merging in the XML that sets those tables so those that do use the extension don't need to do it manually, though, assuming there's no conflict when the extension is unloaded. You did it for all the levels for all the classes?

    Is this the extension you're using? https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-amp-D-Classic

    I already can see that we'll have another conflict because the NPC records in my module already include the XP value for hit points (assuming max hit points, though), and that extension is probably going to be adding them on again.

    Ultimately it comes down to the intention of this mod being to allow the use of OSRIC content in 2E games, rather than fully reproducing the 1E experience. What might make sense in the long run is if someone is interested in the true "1e" version of this module, taking it, editing it (such as inputting the attack matrixes for classes, and redoing the XP to just have the base "without HP added in" values so that the extension can do it properly.

    By the way, over the last 3 days I've done about 30 pages of monsters and have 100 to go, so hopefully I'll have a "finished" product soon. Dragons have been slow going because I've been creating entries for every HD and age category. I do want to get the Monsters of Myth book done too (which I might do as a separate module) since it has a lot of creatures in it that don't have equivalents in the currently-released 2E content for FG.
    Last edited by Sterno; January 1st, 2021 at 21:35.

  10. #20
    Yes, I did all levels of all the classes present in the mod.

    I am using an extension by Celestian https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...p/t-37986.html

    Here is a link to my github to make an easy merge https://github.com/dimonic/OsricFor2e
    Last edited by dimonic; January 1st, 2021 at 22:46.

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