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  1. #91

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    Thanks Stollesson, I know of those I'm more concerned about all the other modifiers that are used in various BRP games, such as the latest incarnation of Runequest. I'll have to do some digging I guess.

    EDIT: As I reread your comment I realize that by "you might want to look at the 'easy' and 'difficult' function instead" you might have meant that I'll investigate how they are implemented and work from there, which of course is spot on. Thanks.
    Last edited by peterb; September 10th, 2021 at 13:08.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    The modifiers window and the modifier stack on the desktop are a general system that applies to all game systems. It is specifically set up to modify the rolls; not to directly modify target numbers which would be a different kind of modifier.
    OK. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    If you flip the sign of the number for applying the modifier, then it should be equivalent to rolling with a reduced target number.
    Unfortunately that is not correct. If you have a system where you only have success and failure as the possible outcomes of a dice roll, then it works, but BRP and its ancestor (RuneQuest) and its descendants (Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Ringworld, and so on) all use five different success levels and their target numbers are based on the base target number (the chance to succeed). The target levels and how to calculate them are (from the best level of success to the worst): Critical success, calculated as 5% of the chance to succeed; Special success, calculated as 20% of the chance to succeed; Success, the base chance to success; Failure, a roll above the base target number; and Critical Failure (or Fumble), calculated as 5% of the chance to fail.

    An example: A skill check roll for a skill with a skill level of 50 is a Critical Success at a roll between 01 to 03, the roll is a Special Success at a roll between 01 to 10 (but effectively from 04 to 10), the roll is Success if the roll is above 10 and equal to or below 50, the roll is a failure if then dice result is above 50, and the roll is a Critical failure if the roll is above 98 to 100.

    If you add 25 to the dice result to make the chance of success smaller the you also make it impossible to get both a critical and a special success, and the chance of a Critical success increases from 3% to 28%. The entire system breaks. The same thing happens at the other end if you substract from the dice roll.

    So, you see, applying modifiers to the skill levels is quite important to get the BRP system to work as intended. I've read on another forum and on Twitter that a RuneQuest ruleset is in the making. It's critical that you get modifications to work properly in the product, or else your customers are sure to complain.

    For BRP, CoC and RuneQuest I would recommend that the modifier box is changed so that it affects the target number and not the dice result. We still need a way of affecting the dice results because there are, mostly from spells, modifications that affects weapon damage rolls. But they are not as frequent as skill level modifications.

    /Peter

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    OK. Thanks.



    Unfortunately that is not correct. If you have a system where you only have success and failure as the possible outcomes of a dice roll, then it works, but BRP and its ancestor (RuneQuest) and its descendants (Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Ringworld, and so on) all use five different success levels and their target numbers are based on the base target number (the chance to succeed). The target levels and how to calculate them are (from the best level of success to the worst): Critical success, calculated as 5% of the chance to succeed; Special success, calculated as 20% of the chance to succeed; Success, the base chance to success; Failure, a roll above the base target number; and Critical Failure (or Fumble), calculated as 5% of the chance to fail.

    An example: A skill check roll for a skill with a skill level of 50 is a Critical Success at a roll between 01 to 03, the roll is a Special Success at a roll between 01 to 10 (but effectively from 04 to 10), the roll is Success if the roll is above 10 and equal to or below 50, the roll is a failure if then dice result is above 50, and the roll is a Critical failure if the roll is above 98 to 100.

    If you add 25 to the dice result to make the chance of success smaller the you also make it impossible to get both a critical and a special success, and the chance of a Critical success increases from 3% to 28%. The entire system breaks. The same thing happens at the other end if you substract from the dice roll.

    So, you see, applying modifiers to the skill levels is quite important to get the BRP system to work as intended. I've read on another forum and on Twitter that a RuneQuest ruleset is in the making. It's critical that you get modifications to work properly in the product, or else your customers are sure to complain.

    For BRP, CoC and RuneQuest I would recommend that the modifier box is changed so that it affects the target number and not the dice result. We still need a way of affecting the dice results because there are, mostly from spells, modifications that affects weapon damage rolls. But they are not as frequent as skill level modifications.

    /Peter

    As has been pointed out several times CoC has not used the mechanic as you describe for 7 years now.

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  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    As has been pointed out several times CoC has not used the mechanic as you describe for 7 years now.
    And? Previous versions of CoC did, RuneQuest and BRP still do. The problem doesn't go away just because CoC7 has introduced a new mechanic, and besides what stops a CoC7 GM from using older mechanics? And, skill modifications in CoC7 works exactly as I describe. They modify the skill level not the dice result.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    And? Previous versions of CoC did, RuneQuest and BRP still do. The problem doesn't go away just because CoC7 has introduced a new mechanic, and besides what stops a CoC7 GM from using older mechanics? And, skill modifications in CoC7 works exactly as I describe. They modify the skill level not the dice result.
    Except that they really dont.

  6. #96
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    Im not the dev for BRP but I submitted an update for the skill rolls to make modifiers adjust the TN (skill). I dont know how long it will take to land as Moon Wizard has a bunch of other updates for BRP he is working on.

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  7. #97

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    Many thanks! Much appreciated!

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    And? Previous versions of CoC did, RuneQuest and BRP still do. The problem doesn't go away just because CoC7 has introduced a new mechanic, and besides what stops a CoC7 GM from using older mechanics? And, skill modifications in CoC7 works exactly as I describe. They modify the skill level not the dice result.
    Changes shouldn't be made to the base CoC 7e system based off an individual's interpretation of what a GM might want to do outside of the rules; if someone is house ruling they could equally want to adjust the dice roll rather than the target number. Assumptions should not be made based off previous rule versions - designs change with new versions. As has been mentioned in the CoC thread you started: RAW for CoC 7e is there are no numerical modifiers to skill target numbers - doubling/halving and bonus/penalty dice handle difficulty changes. As such the CoC 7e ruleset shouldn't be changed to introduce a mechanic from a previous version that isn't there in 7e.

    Now, CoC 6e is a slightly different story - although there's only one mention of a modifier actually changing a skill check target number (drive roll modifiers on page 285 of the 6e rulebook), other modifiers in the 6e rulebook halve/double/x3 etc. - but there is the rule there (in 6e) to apply modifiers to the target number - so the FG CoC 6e ruleset could handle modifiers differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    ... and besides what stops a CoC7 GM from using older mechanics?
    Nothing is stopping them - they'll just have to handle it manually, like most house rules.

    So, to ammend your statement from earlier (which @damned and I have been responding to) - bold addition is my recommended amendment to clarify which FG official CoC ruleset this applies to:

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    For BRP, CoC 6e and RuneQuest I would recommend that the modifier box is changed so that it affects the target number and not the dice result. We still need a way of affecting the dice results because there are, mostly from spells, modifications that affects weapon damage rolls. But they are not as frequent as skill level modifications.
    Last edited by Trenloe; September 15th, 2021 at 01:56.
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  9. #99
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    Ive submitted an update to 6E and BRP that will support that but Im not sure when they will go live.

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  10. #100
    It will be awhile yet, and they will be included in the next beta test for ruleset changes.

    Regards,
    JPG

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