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Thread: Flurry of Blows

  1. #21
    One consideration: Stacking damage types leads to less average damage compared to applying damage types to each single damage roll. So 1D6+2 + 1D6+2 slashing, piercing is worse than 1D6+2 slashing + 1D6+2 piercing. The former applies both benefits and drawbacks to Twin Takedown, the latter only applies benefits. This also applies when you mix resistances with weaknesses.

    At the table I would likely stack types and numbers, because it is much easier and quicker to calculate and the results are often the same (just not on average, aka some rolls differ, most do not). In FG the calculations are done by the computer, so you are more free to choose what fits your group best.
    Last edited by Weissrolf; July 3rd, 2020 at 12:58.

  2. #22
    Different damage typed do not ever add together in Pathfinder. Only the same types do. My group and me spent a good while looking into this (and arguing).


    Using Fantasy Grounds Unity exclusively.

  3. #23
    Like I said, the difference is minimal in practice, as it often only applies to roles of 1 or 2 on a damage dice. But the calculations are much easier at the table. There is nothing in the rulebook disallowing the combination of damage types and there are lots of examples where damage types are changed due to some special abilities. And then there is page 451 of the CRB, Damage Types and Traits:

    "When an attack deals a type of damage, the attack action gains that trait. For example, the Strikes and attack actions you use wielding a sword when its flaming rune is active gain the fire trait, since the rune gives the weapon the ability to deal fire damage." So if those feats that apply strikes had the "Attack" trait then their corresponding attack action would also gain the other combined traits. Curiously none of these feats have the attack trait, which strikes me very odd for feats that specifically "strike" a target.

    All that being said, one could argue that the whole resistance calculation for the combined strike of Twin Takedown might be wrong. According to page 453 CRB, Resistances: "If you have more than one type of resistance that would apply to the same instance of damage, use only the highest applicable resistance value." Twin Takedown should be "the same instance of damage", that is the whole point of it. And it is a *single* action, thus only the highest applicable resistance value should be used. This is specifically different to the next paragraph that describes "resistance to all damage". So combining a piercing with a slashing weapon as Twin Takedown against a foe with "resistance:5 piercing, resistance:5 slashing" should only apply -5 to the combined damage.

    This interpretation even works with Trenloe's suggestion of dropping one roll onto the modifier box, just drop the roll with the lower applicable resistance first, the other higher applicable resistance is used by FG then. Of course the GM has to tell the PC which resistance is higher then, even without a knowledge roll, so it's not exactly perfect.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    The main thing with flurry of blows is that the damage is combined for purposes of resistances and weaknesses. I'm not aware of any ruleset that allows the automatic combination of damage across multiple attacks. However, the simple process outlined below allows this.

    To do this, roll your first and second attacks as normal (using the relevant multi-attack penalties) and if both hit, remove targeting before you roll the first damage so that it just rolls into the chat window but doesn't apply. Then drag the result of the first damage roll to the modifier stack so that the damage is logged as a modifier for the next roll and re-add targeting. Then roll the second damage - the amount from the first roll will be added to the second roll - and as you now have targeting the damage will be applied to the target.

    Note: you can quickly disable targeting by clicking the small targeting cross-hairs on the modifier stack beneath the chat window.

    So, the steps are:
    1. Make attacks as normal - apply MAP (Multi Attack Penalties) as required.
    2. If both attacks hit, click the targeting cross-hairs on the modifier stack so that it's greyed out.
    3. Roll your first damage, this won't be applied as targeting is disabled at this point.
    4. Drag/drop the result of the damage roll to the modifier stack so that the total damage of the first roll is shown as a modifier and click the cross-hairs so that they aren't greyed out anymore.
    5. Roll the second damage.
    I dont think its preserving the damage type from the first damage roll. Seems to if you do it by itself but not if combined with another.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willot View Post
    I dont think its preserving the damage type from the first damage roll. Seems to if you do it by itself but not if combined with another.
    That process assumes that the second damage roll has a single damage type and is the same as the first.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    I checked this. The combined damage gets the damage type of the latter weapon being rolled.
    I specifically tested this and reported back some time ago (see above quote). Depending on how you interpret Flurry in practice this may not be so problematic.

    ... And it is a *single* action, thus only the highest applicable resistance value should be used. ...

    This interpretation even works with Trenloe's suggestion of dropping one roll onto the modifier box, just drop the roll with the lower applicable resistance first, the other higher applicable resistance is used by FG then. Of course the GM has to tell the PC which resistance is higher then, even without a knowledge roll, so it's not exactly perfect.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    That process assumes that the second damage roll has a single damage type and is the same as the first.
    Ahh
    "The small town of Swampspittle is a charming reminder of how Faerun use to be.Plague victims crawl eloquently down it's dung filled streets; greasing the way with puss from thier buboes.While at least two children a week are burnt at the stake as changelings in the handsome market square. The town boasts two taverns, one humourous dwarf and a shop that sells little things made of straw."

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    That process assumes that the second damage roll has a single damage type and is the same as the first.
    In my test multiple damage types do apply for the second roll. Both rolls still need at least one damage type to overlap for the process to work.

    That being said: Is it correct that FG applies all resistance even for single rolls? Like I quoted before, Aacording to page 453 CRB, Resistances: "If you have more than one type of resistance that would apply to the same instance of damage, use only the highest applicable resistance value."

    This is not the same as having "resistance to all damage"! Currently FG seems to apply multiple resistances even when a foe does not have "resistance to all damage".

  9. #29
    There's some question on the Paizo forums about whether, for example, a flaming rune counts as the same or a separate instance of damage. So if you are using a slashing weapon with a flaming rune against a creature with both slashing and fire resistance does it get both? I don't think there has been an official ruling yet.

    The rule about "more than one type of resistance" could easily be talking about the more straightfoward example of a cold iron slashing weapon - in that case it's definitely a single instance of damage, so you'd take the higher of cold iron and slashing resistance.

    My personal ruling so far has been elemental runes count as a separate instance of damage - which would mean that Fantasy Grounds is handling it correctly.

  10. #30
    I doubt that there will be an "official" ruling. Paizo likes to keep these things vague and thus in the hand of players, even more so in PF2. That being said, what other instance of multiple damage types do you get except for maybe a very few spells? A slashing weapon with a flaming rune is a prototype of "multiple damage types" in the "same instance of damage".

    The example of slashing + flaming is even used for the next paragraph about "resistance to all damage" to demonstrate that this is the only instance where you apply all resistances to each damage type separately. Resistances are not meant to negate all damage that easily unless a creature specifically has "resistance to all damage". That's why that paragraph even exists.
    Last edited by Weissrolf; July 10th, 2020 at 21:04.

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