STAR TREK 2d20
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. #1

    Why is Pathfinder the red-headed step child of Fantasy Grounds?

    So, I've noticed that I've bought several books, including the Core Book, a few Ultimate books, Advanced Books. And I've found that that the spells are not completely coded, the descriptions are basically copy and pasted from the PDF versions of the books without bothering the remove the page breaks so the formatting is all jacked up and generally it seems like these things were done very half-baked. And I ask Why? Is my Pathfinder money not as good as the D&D 5E money?

  2. #2
    The rulesets that support the game systems in FG are built up over time on top of each other. That means that the newest game systems will by some means always have more support than previous versions.

    If you see formatting or any other issues in the Pathfinder reference manuals, please post the details in the official Pathfinder DLC bug report thread:
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-Report-Thread

    Regards,
    JPG

  3. #3

    PF, the forgotten son of FG

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    The rulesets that support the game systems in FG are built up over time on top of each other. That means that the newest game systems will by some means always have more support than previous versions.

    If you see formatting or any other issues in the Pathfinder reference manuals, please post the details in the official Pathfinder DLC bug report thread:
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-Report-Thread

    Regards,
    JPG
    Thank you for your reply, Moon Wizard. I am not talking about something old, like D&D 2nd edition. (I bought a module for that and immediately wish I hadn't. There is basically nothing in that ruleset) I am talking about Pathfinder, granted 1st edition, but it's still a very active ruleset. You say it builds up over time, well you've had a lot of time to build that ruleset,however I am not talking about the coding, which is alright, but how there seems to be no respect for us as the consumer or the source material. I don't want to go through ALL of your spells explaining how you did not bother to do the basic amount of work to make it worth while. But sinc eyou asked, I just jumped in and looked at a couple of basic spells ... Enlarge Person and Grease... First level, not unpopular, Wizard spells.

    For Enlarge Person, you added that it had a save, but you didn't script ANY of the effects it has on the recipient. However the description looks correct.

    Now let take a look at Grease... So, there spell is there, but there's no save, no effect, nothing coded in to the spell... And the description...

    "A

    grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the

    greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled."

    I like how it starts off with just the letter "A" and then a line break or two before continuing. You get the idea. I paid for this product and shouldn't expected to be it's editor as well. I don't mind helping out with a bug report, but this isn't a bug, this is someone doing an incomplete job. I'm just curious as to why PF was not given the attention that it deserves... that WE the consumers and players deserve. If you would like to offer me a job as an editor and scripter for your Pathfinder Products, I would be happy to go through and revise all of the missing scripts, recommend now code to support scripts it needs, and tighten up all of the descriptions.

  4. #4
    If you mention which book they are in, we can get the DLC developer to fix up the issues. I just looked at the PFRPG Spells module (included SRD material) and Pathfinder Core Rules (Rulebook purchase); and they look correct.

    JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Also, game systems (and certain rules within game systems) are complex. We aim for about 80-90% automation for the 5E ruleset; and a bit less on the 3.5E/Pathfinder rulesets because they are older and don't have all the features of the latest system.

    Currently, we have to prioritize between enhancing existing systems (of which 5E and Pathfinder 2 are much more used) and getting new software out to customers; so it's a constant weighing of priorities.

    If you are not happy with the level of automation with FG or any DLC that is available, we offer a 30-day money back guarantee on all purchases through the FG store.

    Regards,
    JPG

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    Also, game systems (and certain rules within game systems) are complex. We aim for about 80-90% automation for the 5E ruleset; and a bit less on the 3.5E/Pathfinder rulesets because they are older and don't have all the features of the latest system.

    Currently, we have to prioritize between enhancing existing systems (of which 5E and Pathfinder 2 are much more used) and getting new software out to customers; so it's a constant weighing of priorities.

    If you are not happy with the level of automation with FG or any DLC that is available, we offer a 30-day money back guarantee on all purchases through the FG store.

    Regards,
    JPG
    Again, it's not the level of automation. It's quality control. With the existing scripting these things COULD HAVE been done, they just weren't done. And at the time these books came out, there was no PF2. So, it was 5e or PF as the major fantasy systems. But okay, PF2, which is a newer system than 5e... Let's take a look at our old friend, the Grease spell. Once again, nothing is coded for the spell... no Saves, no Prone effect... nothing... just a cast button. So, it's not really prioritizing new software. It's about prioritizing Dungeon and Dragons to the exclusion of providing completed packages to your players.

    Getting software out to new customers is one thing, but shouldn't you want to do it right? No just be "here ya go... don't like it, get your money back!" You're just a developer, I guess you don't have to have the buy-in to have that much pride in your work. When I perform a project, I want it to be done right. I want the customer to pick this up and be, "Wow! I love this so much," not "hold on, another thing that I have to fix before you can play, ugh!"

    I guess I shouldn't have expected an actual reason, who would be, "We prioritize Dungeons and Dragons because we have a better relationship with Wizards than we do with Paizo. But we wanted to get other systems to market, so we hired some people who don't really care to be a JV team to the 5e group to put this half cooked stuff to market." Which, in the absence of anything real is what seems the most likely. Again, this is not about the level of automation. This is about not using the level of automation that you DID have to put out a completed product.

    But, I realize this is all of the answer I am going to get. Which to be clear is, "Deal with it, become our free copy editor, or ask for your money back." So, I guess it does not need a further answer than this. I do thank you for your time Moon Wizard.

  7. #7
    Yeah alot of the development for PF1e happened before D&D5e came out (almost everyone hated D&D4e), and with so many people playing PF1e alot of extensions and modules were being created by people for PF1e (not Smiteworks). Sometimes (if a extension or module was very popular) they would incorporate it into the ruleset as standard.

    I use to play PF1e and I remember those glorious summer days of FG PF1e, with new a new extension or module coming out almost once a week; but when D&D5e came out alot of people jumped ship and PF1e lost all those people creating stuff for it.

    And yes, D&D5e now gets alot of the love from Smiteworks as most of their customers can be found over in the D&D5e games.

    With the release of PF2e (this is where I am now) this has only before somewhat worse of PF1e.

    But PF1e still remains a good system. Better that 5e in alot of ways.
    "When questing once in noble wood of gray medieval pine, I came upon a tomb, rain-slicked, rubbed cool, ethereal, its inscription long vanished, yet still within its melancholy fissures."

  8. #8
    Thanks for making me your 1,000th post. I mean, PF1e has it's place for developing exactly the character you want. There's a lot of source material. I play both 5e and PF1e (after my current AP is done, I plan on switching to PF2e). So I know the benefits of all of the systems, but in FG they hate their PF players.

  9. #9
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    33,362
    Quote Originally Posted by theadept024 View Post
    ...but in FG they hate their PF players.
    No, they don't "hate" any players of any system.

    Development of products and rulesets is primarily done by community developers. For products they get a very, very small commission - never enough to reach anywhere closed to even minimum wage for the time put in, and for the ruleset that would be even less as it's not a paid product. The willingness of community developers is what drives the availability of products and changes/improvements to the ruleset. As far as product availability, there's actually been a surge this year in availability of the "hard back book" products - there's a lot more of these around than there was a year ago. But from a ruleset coding perspective there isn't, to the best of my knowledge, an active community developer for the PFRPG/3.5E ruleset.

    As has been mentioned, if there are specific issues with specific product (in terms of incorrect/mis-formatted information) then the community developers of those products are usually very quick in responding and fixing issues. This is the thread to report issues with purchased DLC: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-Report-Thread

    Is Pathfinder 1e the "red-headed step child"? Maybe it is in some respects, because this is purely driven by community interested. But definitely not from available DLC - there is currently 105 official Paizo Pathfinder 1e products in the store - 105! And more are being added all the time.

    Moving this from the Pathfinder Society forum to the 3/5E/Pathfinder forum. The Pathfinder Society forum is for Paizo's Organized Play campaign.
    Last edited by Trenloe; June 21st, 2020 at 09:55.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  10. #10
    hawkwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    London Calling
    Posts
    2,589
    you may find this excellent community module https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...FRPG-Spellbook goes some way to help with the automation of spells
    Last edited by Trenloe; June 21st, 2020 at 09:57.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
DICE PACKS BUNDLE

Log in

Log in