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  1. #11
    I fully understand the feeling of many users who feel frustrated after having purchased FGU (expecially if the Ultimate license) and not being able to run a game.
    I myself decided to purchase FGU ultimate because I was looking for a LOS system and I don't like montly payment (this made me ruled out Roll20 system).
    I must admit however that the way FGU was presented on the site was misleading. It was clear that FGU was a pre-release software but it was state that, nevertheless, I would have been able to play my game. That's definitely not the case (In my case is because of the GPU insane usage).
    I'm not saying that I was cheated because I know how much work the developers are dioing and I appreciate that. However, up to now, the software is below the expectations even for a beta stage.
    Probaly this feeling i shared only by a limited number of users with facing critical issues like mine.
    That said, a possible solution would be to grant to anyone who purchased FGU a temporary licence to FGC. Once FGU will finally exit its pre-release status this temporaty licence could be withdrown.

    I'm not particularly interested in it because of the lacking of LOS, moreover, I'm not in a hurry and I can patiently wait until the release version of FGU (but I could at least start to familiarize with the software). However, this would somehow mitigate the frustration of those users a bit upset with tha current quality of FGU.

    That's just my personal opinion, obviously.
    Last edited by Atarsamak; May 31st, 2020 at 15:46.

  2. #12
    I only had the Core rules and the ap module loaded. I must admit, the last time I used FGU was four weeks ago and it was a D&D5E game. So, maybe, it is not a problem with the FGU code itself, but with the Starfinder ruleset... Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't usable last night.

  3. #13
    I actually recorded a first version of the video in which I was connected to the cloud server but I didn't like how long the video was and it turned out that my audio was all ****ed up. When I'm connected to the cloud servers x all the times in my video by about 10.

    Clicking generate on one of the SquareWare tables took 61 seconds. Literally a hundred times slower than clicking it in classic.

    Like I said in the video and in my post the biggest problem with the poor performance isn't the time it takes to do these things it's that the program locks up and prevents you from running the game while it's loading. It's like a double whammy, you know if I want to click generate on a table I might be working on the next room of a dungeon that I'm coming up with on the fly. I'm also running combat at the same time. In classic that's no problem, but in unity because of these long hang times that lock out the program I can't do it.

    when I first saw people complaining about poor performance of unity, and a bad optimization, my assumption and understanding was like most programs it ran fine if you had beefy hardware, but hadn't been optimized for a wide variety of hardware yet. You could expect poor performance on lower spec machines. That's very normal for game development, wearable run really great on hi-spec hardware but without optimization it falls off really fast when you don't have the most recent stuff.

    "Optimization" isn't what fantasy grounds unity needs right now. No, there is some sort of significant loading error that's absolutely crushing the program. Optimization means making it run *better* on some hardware or even on all hardware. But no, there is some sort of fundamental flaw, a bug, that is making it so opening basic lists, which should be instantaneous on a modern computer, is like pulling teeth.

  4. #14
    I have to echo GaryMon's comments. I too am regretting diving into FGU, and probably should have bought FGC instead.

    Actually, this is a HUGE marketing Faux Pas. What they SHOULD do is anyone who purchased a license to FGU in good faith, especially the Ultimate license, should get a license to FGC as well. This is NOT without precedence in the industry, especially when a S/W product is in very early Beta, or late Alpha - as it were.

    FG folks, you are frustrating and disenchanting your customer base this way, at great risk of losing customers. You should really do something.

  5. #15
    I chose FGU as iI thought I read it was due for releae April/May (clearly not!, my error there), had LoS (albeit very limited implentation!) and the icing on the cake 2E was available for it (now no longer supported by developer due to issues with FGU!)! I pay fo the Monthly ultimate license - I do not want FGC as that in my view is a backward step as in the longer term FGU will replace FGC (ir it should - why else release it).

    So yes - Please sort out the glitch on the software thats causing FGU to hang (this alone will make lots of people very happy!), ensure developers can easily port their FGC apps to FGU, else I suspect many paying customers will become further disenchanted and move to alternate systems.

  6. #16
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    For anybody who find FGU is not meeting their wants, FG has a 30 day money back refund. Just email [email protected] and ask for a refund. Then if you want you can purchase FGC and when you decide FGU is ready for you, then buy FGU.

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
    On Licensing & Distributing Community Content
    Community Contributions: Gemstones, 5E Quick Ref Decal, Adventure Module Creation, Dungeon Trinkets, Balance Disturbed, Dungeon Room Descriptions
    Note, I am not a SmiteWorks employee or representative, I'm just a user like you.

  7. #17
    FWIW, it is working for some. We're running Extinction Curse (PF2 AP) with no problems, Dead Suns (Starfinder), and for 4 sessions of Tarnbreaker's Trail during Paizocon this last week. Couple of minor foibles during one session, most were impressed with the automation.

  8. #18
    Sulimo's Avatar
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    Not being a developer myself, I can only imagine what Smiteworks are experiencing with the development of FGU.

    However, as an IT person I will say this:

    The types of issues that everyone is bringing up are extremely difficult to track down.

    There are so many variables involved. Just a few that I can come up with off the top of my head:

    1. Operating System (Windows vs. macOS vs. Linux)
    2. OS Version. Windows 8+ and macOS 10.13+ and Ubuntu 16.04+ are the official system requirements. I've seen people with computers with Windows 7 and macOS 10.12 with issues. I realize buying a new computer can be expensive, but the developers have to set a line somewhere. macOS 10.12 was officially End Of Life September 2019 by Apple, and Windows 7 was EOL in January 2020 by Microsoft. If you are running these older Operating Systems, you are putting yourself at risk of unpatched security vulnerabilities at the very least (not to mention software incompatibilities).
    3. Video Card Chipset
    4. Video Card manufacturer
    5. Video Card Driver version
    6. Motherboard type and rev.
    7. BIOS Version
    8. Version of the HAL (DirectX or Metal)
    9. CPU Type
    10. Multi-core CPUs have thrown their own issues into the mix as well. I have an older game (from 2006) that runs terrible after more than about 30-60 minutes. Sometimes this can be caused by multi-core CPUs (which weren't a thing in consumer CPUs in 2006), finding the fix was an interesting quest through the internet. There are a lot of modern games that perform better with Hyper-threading turned off (at least on some CPUs).
    11. Other drivers that could be causing issues, there are so many ways rogue drivers can interact and cause issues.


    These are just some of the things they have to contend with.

    The biggest thing they need to be able to do is to recreate the issue themselves so they can troubleshoot. Being able to reproduce the issue consistently is key to fixing it. As I recall, it was only recently that pindercarl was able to reproduce the macOS CPU usage bug. I'm not sure if they have been able to recreate the GPU bug at present (I could be wrong though). At the same time, there are a lot of users not having significant issues (even with older hardware).

    Not being able to reproduce the issue makes solving it like shooting in the dark. I imagine they have limited capacity to purchase a bunch of different pieces of hardware to try to test things out. That would be prohibitively expensive, since there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of different possible combinations

    This is where the user is critical. Detailed steps to reproduce the issue, and as many other details as can be obtained will help them get to the bottom of the issues. Just saying there are performance issues without as many details as possible does not help them at all. This is somewhat of a two edged sword, the developers need details, but users (in general) don't know how to filter the irrelevant bits out, so the developers end up getting a dump of information, with some of it being irrelevant to the issue at hand.


    The other big issue is customer expectations. Smiteworks has to contend with consumers that have different expectations because of factors outside their control.

    I have said this before, but I really blame Google for disturbing the Software Release cycle with their perpetual beta apps. It has changed the meaning of the term in the mind of the general public.

    However, despite Google's nonsense with the term Beta, Beta has a long history in software development (emphasis mine):

    Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, speed or performance issues, and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it.
    Open Beta (emphasis mine):
    Developers may release either a closed beta also called private beta, or an open beta also called public beta; closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. Private beta could be suitable for the software that is capable of delivering value, but is not ready to be used by everyone either due to scaling issues, lack of documentation or still missing vital features. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version
    I believe that Google has caused harm to developers everywhere by conflating Beta with Release Candidate, which is the true state of most of Google's 'Beta' apps.

    I get that it is frustrating, just trying to give a sense of what the process is like. Performance tuning is not a one and done thing, it will be a continual process for a while. Don't expect it to be fixed all at once.

    I don't work for Smiteworks, so this is just from my experience having worked in IT for 20+ years.

  9. #19
    Well said, @Sulimo! I do not have your way with words, but I have been a developer and beta tester (non-QA) for 30 years, which means I don't pay attention to Google "labels". But, the biggest takeaway is that beta means there will be issues and it may not work for you. This is after getting past the hurdle of minimum requirements.

  10. #20
    GaryMon's Avatar
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    Asking for a refund is not an option for me, past the 30 day time frame.

    And in all honesty, I do not want a refund, I like messing with FGU. I can not run any sessions at the moment but I am learning a helluva a lot about extensions and modules. I just wished there was some option available that would allow me to run FGC until FGU is more stable then cut off FGC. I know it is a pipe dream, but one can hope.

    I am currently using the Savage Worlds rule set and the DCCRPG rule set. And I love both of them, I am building modules that incorporate both the funnel concept of DCCRPG and the rules/dice mechanics of SWADE but using none of the items, NPC's or any of that stuff because most of it does not fit into the vision of the world I am creating.

    So, while I am frustrated with FGU issues and have my regrets, my time waiting for the issues to be fixed is not all dead time.
    Again, I am hoping that the issues get fixed sooner than later.
    Last edited by GaryMon; May 31st, 2020 at 23:44.
    FGU Ultimate License. Just getting my feet wet, so far.

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