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  1. #1

    Open-Ended CoreRPG Tables Discussion

    Since the statistics for open-ended d100 rolls aren't really flat, having a single table that includes all the result ranges expressed in the paper tables is not the same thing. I guess the main issue in using the CoreRPG table constructs is modified open-ended rolls.

    Unmodified open-ended rolls could be handled through regular linked tables. For instance, a high open-ended roll would have results for the initial values from 1-95, and then a 2nd table would be the result for the 96-100 range, and then a 3rd table for the 96-100 range on the 2nd table. The same could be done on the opposite end, with the 1st "lower" table linked to the 1-5 result on the initial table, and subsequently "lower" tables linked to the 96-100 range of the previous level. How many tables have results beyond rolls totaling -300 on the low end or 300 on the high end?

  2. #2
    That's a good idea for a workaround. I should be able to merge with the CoreRPG tables and add the open-ended rolls as additional options. The issue I might have is the open-ended rolls don't just have one dice landed result so I will need to make sure it actually works.

    Rolemaster Classic for FG Wish List - http://rm4fg.idea.informer.com/

  3. #3
    JohnD's Avatar
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    I was also going to suggest multiple linked tables for the 1-5 and 96-00 results.
    DMing since February 1979. FGC & FGU Ultimate License holder.

    Currently GMing:
    * Yggsburgh and Castle Zagyg - Castles and Crusades Greyhawk (Monday | Friday)
    * ToEE - Castles and Crusades Greyhawk (Thursday)
    * AD&D Bandit Kingdoms (Friday)
    * AD&D (Saturday)

    Thanks for 8+ years of gaming via FG my friends (AD&D 2e / 3.5e / Rolemaster Classic / Castles & Crusades / Pathfinder / Savage Worlds / 5e).

    There/Their/They're are all different words and do not mean the same thing.

  4. #4
    My only concern with that approach is I am sure someone won't be happy that it doesn't match the tables exactly. That doesn't mean I won't fall back to using this idea but I want to exhaust other options first.

    Rolemaster Classic for FG Wish List - http://rm4fg.idea.informer.com/

  5. #5
    Here's an example using the "Childbirth and Sibling Generation" procedures from Rolemaster Companion only for humans. It took a total of 10 tables; 4 tables to implement the high open-ended roll for the number of Conceptions, 3 tables to implement the high open-ended roll for the number of children in each conception, 1 table to determine the outcome of each conception, 1 table to determine the gender and mortality of each child, and 1 table to determine injuries to the mother or complications to the child(ren).

    The last table, "Birth Injuries", is generic, can be used for any race, and doesn't include links to any other tables due to the complicated nature of each of its results. If the offspring are most likely healthy, then the user is directed to roll on the "Children" table for the appropriate race. This table is also the only one in the process that may be subject to a modification roll of +/- d50, based on the lifestyle of the mother. Given that, it may be appropriate to unlink it from the "Conception Outcome" table and direct the user to roll manually on it and adjust the outcome using the appropriate d50 result in the modifiers field below the chat box.

    Unlike the RMC Table Resolver tables, it's my understanding that CoreRPG tables cannot be targets for player rolls or handle complications due to modifications of open-ended rolls across the linkages (modifiers are only applied to the initial roll).

    There is a Story entry that lays out the basic calculations used to determine the range starts for each subsequent open-ended result table. It also includes calculations for the result ranges on the "Child - Human" table (gender/mortality). That table combines a couple of source tables to simplify the roll, because the required dice roll statistics can be treated as a flat line instead of a curve.

    IMHO - This whole approach is most likely only appropriate for GM use, since these tables can't be targets of player rolls. Unless Dakadin can find a way to adapt the CoreRPG tables to behave more like the Table Resolver, then the Table Resolver remains useful.
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    Last edited by Bale Nomad; April 12th, 2020 at 01:31.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bale Nomad View Post
    Here's an example using the "Childbirth and Sibling Generation" procedures from Rolemaster Companion only for humans. It took a total of 10 tables; 4 tables to implement the high open-ended roll for the number of Conceptions, 3 tables to implement the high open-ended roll for the number of children in each conception, 1 table to determine the outcome of each conception, 1 table to determine the gender and mortality of each child, and 1 table to determine injuries to the mother or complications to the child(ren).

    The last table, "Birth Injuries", is generic, can be used for any race, and doesn't include links to any other tables due to the complicated nature of each of its results. If the offspring are most likely healthy, then the user is directed to roll on the "Children" table for the appropriate race. This table is also the only one in the process that may be subject to a modification roll of +/- d50, based on the lifestyle of the mother. Given that, it may be appropriate to unlink it from the "Conception Outcome" table and direct the user to roll manually on it and adjust the outcome using the appropriate d50 result in the modifiers field below the chat box.

    Unlike the RMC Table Resolver tables, it's my understanding that CoreRPG tables cannot be targets for player rolls or handle complications due to modifications of open-ended rolls across the linkages (modifiers are only applied to the initial roll).

    There is a Story entry that lays out the basic calculations used to determine the range starts for each subsequent open-ended result table. It also includes calculations for the result ranges on the "Child - Human" table (gender/mortality). That table combines a couple of source tables to simplify the roll, because the required dice roll statistics can be treated as a flat line instead of a curve.
    Impressive workaround. I like the approach but how do you handle when someone rolls a 98 and then rolls a 24 for a total of 122? Would they get the 22 result on the second table or get the 24 result?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bale Nomad View Post
    IMHO - This whole approach is most likely only appropriate for GM use, since these tables can't be targets of player rolls. Unless Dakadin can find a way to adapt the CoreRPG tables to behave more like the Table Resolver, then the Table Resolver remains useful.
    Just out of curiosity what do you mean by targets of player rolls? Does that mean that the players can't make rolls off of the CoreRPG tables? Sorry I still have to learn more about them.

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  7. #7
    That's a good point about the additive nature of the subsequent rolls. I simply adjusted the original ranges down by 95 for each subsequent table. More thought is likely required, especially since rolls of 96, 192, and all other multiples of 96 are impossible in an unmodified high open-ended d100 roll, and I may not have correctly accounted for those.

    The RMC Table Resolver uses the results of rolls, including all applicable modifiers to determine a result. For some rolls, like crits or fumbles, the player can roll a d100 and the GM can drag the number from chat and drop it on the table in the resolver to get a result. With CoreRPG tables, the GM can share them out to players who can initiate a roll and adjust it with their modifier, but it will only adjust the initial roll, not the subsequent open-ended rolls. The open-ended roll is supposed to be modified after it reaches its ultimate total.

    If the roll was made in the usual manner, even if the target table looked just like the original source table, the result cannot be dragged from the chat and dropped on the table to find the result. The roll must be initiated from the table. At least that's what I observe in my tests.

  8. #8
    So if I can get the CoreRPG tables to support the open-ended rolls would that solve the issues even if you can't drag a roll to it?

    Rolemaster Classic for FG Wish List - http://rm4fg.idea.informer.com/

  9. #9
    JohnD's Avatar
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    You may want to look at putting some of these tables into a Player module that the ruleset will make available to players to load when they connect.

    The treasure generation stuff would still be in the GM side module of C&T.
    DMing since February 1979. FGC & FGU Ultimate License holder.

    Currently GMing:
    * Yggsburgh and Castle Zagyg - Castles and Crusades Greyhawk (Monday | Friday)
    * ToEE - Castles and Crusades Greyhawk (Thursday)
    * AD&D Bandit Kingdoms (Friday)
    * AD&D (Saturday)

    Thanks for 8+ years of gaming via FG my friends (AD&D 2e / 3.5e / Rolemaster Classic / Castles & Crusades / Pathfinder / Savage Worlds / 5e).

    There/Their/They're are all different words and do not mean the same thing.

  10. #10
    If you are referring to me the Character Law, Arms Law and Spell Law modules are Player modules. There aren't any CoreRPG tables in Arms Law. Spell Law has the Healing Recovery tables. Character Law has the Healing Recovery and Background Options tables. Those are all accessible by the player.

    Creatures & Treasures will be a GM module so any tables in it will be available to only the GM. Right now there aren't any tables in C&T but I do plan on adding them once I get the open-ended rolls worked out with the CoreRPG tables.

    Rolemaster Classic for FG Wish List - http://rm4fg.idea.informer.com/

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