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  1. #11
    damned's Avatar
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    It does sound like either your character, or your play style, or your play style for this character wasnt a good fit for that group.

    I will also throw my hat in with Lord Entrails - this is a co-operative and social game and players and characters that enhance the experience for the others at the table will result in more fun for everyone.

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmaron View Post
    .............. If memory serves, Charisma was split into Appearance and Leadership. It gave new tables for the bonuses/penalties associated with these new stats.
    You are viewing Charisma too narrowly. It also captures leadership, attractiveness, and several other qualities in addition to social ability. There have been plenty of loners who turned out to be effective leaders in a group, e.g. And a high charisma could be due to just a phenomenal magnetism even though the person is socially inept.
    For Charisma it was divided into Charisma and Comeliness Discussed in 2e Version of Unearthed Arcana p6
    For a relatable example I give my players, Hitler was certainly no beauty (comeliness) but he was undeniably Charismatic.

    I still utilize it today since it does a better job of separating the physical from the intangible. Nothing like a barmaid or Succubus with a high comeliness. or a Bard with a silvered tongue of charisma talking those less armed with smooth words (yea you mister gatekeeper) out of information or egress to the secret ways of the castle.

    As to the others, while there were several references to dividing Attributes throughout Dragon Magazine and other places (Seems like Judges-guild & Gurps might have been others). This went full bloom when the "copyright wars" of the late '90s went on with what was and was not copyrightable. Alternate game sources,all re-invented some of these descriptors. Some third party gaming systems substituted similar descriptors as well.
    Fortitude = Constitution
    Intellect= Intelligence
    Willpower=Wisdom etc

    but I don't think there was one D&D book that collected the splits on all.. but I'll look.

    DLG

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord Galen View Post
    For Charisma it was divided into Charisma and Comeliness Discussed in 2e Version of Unearthed Arcana p6
    For a relatable example I give my players, Hitler was certainly no beauty (comeliness) but he was undeniably Charismatic.

    I still utilize it today since it does a better job of separating the physical from the intangible. Nothing like a barmaid or Succubus with a high comeliness. or a Bard with a silvered tongue of charisma talking those less armed with smooth words (yea you mister gatekeeper) out of information or egress to the secret ways of the castle.

    As to the others, while there were several references to dividing Attributes throughout Dragon Magazine and other places (Seems like Judges-guild & Gurps might have been others). This went full bloom when the "copyright wars" of the late '90s went on with what was and was not copyrightable. Alternate game sources,all re-invented some of these descriptors. Some third party gaming systems substituted similar descriptors as well.
    Fortitude = Constitution
    Intellect= Intelligence
    Willpower=Wisdom etc

    but I don't think there was one D&D book that collected the splits on all.. but I'll look.

    DLG
    2e Skills and Powers had all of them.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
    2e Skills and Powers had all of them.
    Good Catch Gavin, beat me to it! Certainly hits right on Bidmaron's thoughts.

    BUT, I think you'd have to agree its not a "true splitting" of the core attributes as 2e started with. It was a lean so hard in the direction of point buy it made it difficult to even utilize with other 2e (And later for that matter) PH character classes. And at the time even WOC didn't intend doing it to all attributes, and thus revisited it in Dragon #225 as to how that might be approached. So after re-proofing through it and the thread, not certain fits the course the OP was hoping for except idea growth maybe.

    DLG

  5. #15

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    Well it was a tangent. I am wont to do that sometimes. What I was trying to get at was that the OP was taking too narrow a view of Charisma in thinking a loner couldn’t have a high charisma.

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