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  1. #31

  2. #32
    confirmed - Conditions appear to now "worK" (applying game mechanics) in the new PF2 Ruleset Update... I haven't extensively tested all of them yet but they appear to work so far. Thanks Trenloe.

  3. #33
    Nice! But I think that Clumsy doesn't apply correctly to Reflex saves.

  4. #34
    Yeah, I can't tell that they are any different at all. They just apply the effect in the Combat Tracker, like before but don't actually do anything that I can see. I restarted and made sure I saw it say it updated the core rules.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepor View Post
    Nice! But I think that Clumsy doesn't apply correctly to Reflex saves.
    OK, I see the issue. Thanks for reporting. I've logged this as RS2.062. Fixed in next release.

    This also effects Clumsy, Drained, Frightened and Sickened for save penalties only - other modifiers should work OK.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jankomatic View Post
    Yeah, I can't tell that they are any different at all. They just apply the effect in the Combat Tracker, like before but don't actually do anything that I can see. I restarted and made sure I saw it say it updated the core rules.
    Please refer to post #28 in this thread for details of posting issues found. I can't fix anything without specifics. Thanks!

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  7. #37
    OK, I see the issue. Thanks for reporting. I've logged this as RS2.062. Fixed in next release.
    This also effects Clumsy, Drained, Frightened and Sickened for save penalties only - other modifiers should work OK.


    Thanks!
    Last edited by Pepor; October 16th, 2019 at 15:56.

  8. #38
    ProneTakeCover is not clear to me. Does 'only applied' mean the engine is applying it as a special case, or that I have to apply it manually?

    in TakeCover you just repeat the CRB rule, but not clear to me how this is implemented.

    As I read the CRB Prone means you are flat footed for -2 circumstance, while Take Cover while prone means you get a +4 circumstance so you have a net modifier of +2 circumstance.

    So why is there a ProneTakeCover - should it not just be in the general rules that opposing circumstance bonuses you do subtract rather than take the best one? Isn't that what happens if I combine flat-footed and greater cover already?

    I tried to understand what it was doing last night and got confused what it is actually doing - is it because I updated with an active combat tracker?
    Last edited by yarnevk; October 16th, 2019 at 20:02.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    ProneTakeCover is not clear to me. Does 'only applied' mean the engine is applying it as a special case, or that I have to apply it manually?

    in TakeCover you just repeat the CRB rule, but not clear to me how this is implemented.
    There's a few things we need to get clear about the "Prone" condition - by itself it gives you no defensive benefits whatsoever - you're flat-footed to all attacks. To get any benefits, you need to use the "Take Cover" action, which gives you only one specific benefit while being prone: "You can Take Cover while prone to hunker down and gain cover against ranged attacks, even if you don’t have an object to get behind, gaining a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged attacks (but you remain flat-footed)."

    Hence why there is the ProneTakenCover condition as this has specific bonuses not covered by other conditions. Apply it to a creature if they have taken an action while prone to take cover, which gives a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged attacks only - hence the documented pseudo effect of AC: 4 circumstance, ranged and this bonus is only relevant if they are also prone - hence why the Wiki states "Only applied if you also have the Prone condition."

    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    As I read the CRB Prone means you are flat footed for -2 circumstance, while Take Cover while prone means you get a +4 circumstance so you have a net modifier of +2 circumstance.
    Correct. With the proviso that this is just for ranged attacks, melee attacks will be against an AC with the -2 circumstance penalty for flat-footed.

    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    So why is there a ProneTakeCover - should it not just be in the general rules that opposing circumstance bonuses you do subtract rather than take the best one?
    That's not quite right. The rules state that you take the best circumstance bonus and the worst circumstance penalty and apply it to the check - there could be many circumstance penalties and bonuses and you shouldn't think about things being opposing - just take the best circumstance bonus and the worst circumstance penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    So why is there a ProneTakeCover - should it not just be in the general rules that opposing circumstance bonuses you do subtract rather than take the best one? Isn't that what happens if I combine flat-footed and greater cover already?
    As mentioned above - using the Take Cover action while prone is not the same as Greater Cover - which also gives bonuses to reflex saves (vs. area effects) and Stealth checks to avoid detection.

    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    I tried to understand what it was doing last night and got confused what it is actually doing - is it because I updated with an active combat tracker?
    It shouldn't make any difference updating to release 7 - as long as the conditions and effects follow the syntax documented in the Wiki.

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  10. #40
    So if behind a window then I drop prone so I can hide then I want to use Greater Cover from the modifier window (or gcover on the tracker), but if in the clear then I want to use ProneTakeCover from the effects window?

    "just take the best circumstance bonus and the worst circumstance penalty" is that what the automation is doing or are you saying we manually have to do this and apply a net modifier.

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