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  1. #11
    That certainly is an opinion you can have that it should be that way - all the more argument for the option to set the ID default behavior so that every DM/GM can run the game easily the way they want to - and not the way you think they should.

    The point is if it is different in 5e that is proof that it is not a base FG issue as suggested, but something specific to the ruleset that makes it different. In which case there is a setting somewhere that is defaulting it differently, which indeed could be toggled by a UI.

    If you want 5e players migrating to PF2e telling them they are doing things wrong it is not going to make it a success. This has nothing to do with version differences, DM/GM are free to decide if people have to do nature checks to identify beasts (or not) or just rule that they would already know so no check is needed in either system.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmaron View Post
    kind of hard to believe someone thinks clicking one option on an encounter string is burdensome, but wish away!
    Here is someone that thinks having to turn off ID on all the monsters in 5e was super annoying. So yes people do find it being defaulted away from what they prefer to be annoying.

    It turns what should be one click to add the encounter into multiple clicks for each monster group, and if you miss doing it you have to scroll thru the entire combat tracker and do it for all the monsters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ckorik View Post
    Yes - and it's super annoying in 5e - however I'm very happy that it works the way it should in Pathfinder.
    Last edited by yarnevk; August 12th, 2019 at 00:27.

  3. #13
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    Hi Guys,
    Please take a step back. The posts are niggling and and need not be.
    We have differences of play styles in lots of different areas.

    The toggle behaviour would be CoreRPG and not ruleset specific and should be added to the wishlist.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    This is not because of base FG code.
    I was referring to your request to have an option to change the default ID setting. That *IS* in the base FG CoreRPG code. Which is why we’re saying add your request to the FG wishlist.

    As has been said, step back from this and stop making a mountain out of a mole-hill. It’s one click off a mouse to give you what you want. You’ve already spent more time arguing than you would take to change the ID setting in all of the encounters in all of the PF2 products released so far.

    My recommendation - add your request to the wishlist. Post the link here so others who want this can vote on it. Then move on.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  5. #15
    Could you explain why this is core RPG when the two rulesets behave differently. By that argument both 5e and pf2e would behave identically.

    Being dismissive of suggestions because of not wanting to do extra clicks is not leading to good UI design. One of the challenges for Fantasy Grounds is that it has a high barrier of entry and poor useability. Removing unecessary clicks is part of good UI design.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    Could you explain why this is core RPG when the two rulesets behave differently. By that argument both 5e and pf2e would behave identically.

    Being dismissive of suggestions because of not wanting to do extra clicks is not leading to good UI design. One of the challenges for Fantasy Grounds is that it has a high barrier of entry and poor useability. Removing unecessary clicks is part of good UI design.
    Whether an encounter is set with the creatures ID'd or not ID'd is set in each encounter. Create a new campaign with only the CoreRPG ruleset, create an encounter and add a NPC - you will see the ID button here. This is what we've been trying to get across - encounter ID is programmed in the CoreRPG ruleset, not in 5E, not in PF2. Your request to set a campaign level default thus has to be set in CoreRPG.

    Let's look at this specific issue. Your complaint is that in Fall of Plaguestone the default for encounters is to have the creatures set as not Identified.

    1. This has nothing to do with the ruleset. It is a design decision by the Fall of Plaguestone DLC creator.
    2. I completely support this design decision for a number of reasons - it isn't possible for the GM to accidentally give away the name of creatures without deciding to ID them, etc.. The main reason being that to identify a creature (via the "Recall Knowledge" skill action) in Pathfinder Second Edition is an actual action - it is not done for free. Therefore, the PCs don't automatically know what they have encountered until they spend action/s to successfully identify the creatures.

    As has been stated, this is a design decision, which only a very small vocal minority seem to disagree with. We already have one user posting in this thread to support that design decision (start with encounter not ID'd) and others (moderators, ruleset designers, old hands, etc.) who support it as well. There have been hundreds of this product and AP part 1 purchased. If this was such a big issue then I would have expected hearing a lot more complaints about it.

    Sure, this is not how *you* want to run your game. It isn't at all forcing you to run in a specific way, because there are 2 places (the encounter itself and the combat tracker) where you can change this functionality with the click of a button.

    You've expressed the opinion that there should be a campaign option to change the default behaviour. This is where we have asked you multiple times to create a request for this in the wishlist, as it is base CoreRPG ruleset functionality, to add a default option that overrides what has been entered in the encounter record.

    I hope the above explains why your request to add an option is base CoreRPG ruleset functionality, and why the DLC designer has made their decision to start with encounters not identified - which makes good design sense with PF2 requiring actions to identify creatures. This probably won't change your opinion, but it will hopefully allow you to understand the background better and where changes would need to be made.

    My recommendation to you is to add your request to the wishlist. Post the link here so others who want this can vote on it. Then the main FG devs can make a decision as to whether the ability to set the creature identification default is added as an option to CoreRPG in the future. If this is not good enough for you, then I suggest you investigate creating an extension that will provide the functionality you desire.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  7. #17
    So what you are saying is that all the 5e encounter authors decided to change each encounter away from the coreRPG encounter default of not ID?

    Regardless of the table argument of should (or not) a player know what they are facing - should not this ID setting be only for the players combat tracker? The GM should be able to see the ID names on their GM combat tracker regardless of the players knowing it or not. Running this encounter with the boss wolf being named the same is confusing because at a glance you do not realize it is actually the boss because they have the same non-id name, you have to open up every wolfs attack abilities or click on their NPC links to figure out which one is the boss. This is the same idea as hidden creatures are not shown on the players map/tracker but are shadowed on the GM map/tracker.
    Last edited by yarnevk; August 13th, 2019 at 19:47.

  8. #18
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    Creature naming in the combat tracker is CoreRPG controlled as well.

    Please make any requests for any feature changes/additions in the FG wishlist.

    Note that the creature ID functionality is fairly recent, so I'm sure the devs will be looking for ways to improve the functionality.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by yarnevk View Post
    So what you are saying is that all the 5e encounter authors decided to change each encounter away from the coreRPG encounter default of not ID?
    No. That's not what I've been saying at all.

    As I mentioned in post #16 , it was a design decision to enter the encounters in Fall of Plaguestone as not identified. Which, as I also said, makes sense for Pathfinder Second Edition as you don't automatically identify creatures. I've outlined this in detail in post #16.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  10. #20
    So what you are saying is the coreRPG has it set by default to ID, and the PF2e encounter authors changed it in the encounter table whereas 5e encounter authors did not. So a CoreRPG feature to set the default to preferred ID or not does not do anything for released encounters - this is only if you are authoring your own encounter tables.

    Actually the rules are that the GM decides if a roll is required in both systems - so please stop trying to say this is because PF2e rules are different. The only difference is in PF it is defined as an action, whereas in 5e the DM can decide that for themselves (accounting for action economy it is taking away the attack in 5e). I have 5e seen streams go all different ways by the same DM in the same game on this - deciding they could not know so no check, surely know so no check, or not sure so roll a check with or without costing an action. If I recall even the PF2e dev running a game said you would know so no need to check.

    I would not say it is a new CoreRPG feature when tracker/map icon visibility already distinguishes between GM/PC trackers/maps, but rather the implementation of the ID for tracker/map name visibility was a feature left incomplete since it does it for both the GM/PC trackers/maps when it should just be the PC trackers/maps.
    Last edited by yarnevk; August 13th, 2019 at 21:11.

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