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  1. #941
    I don't work for SW.

    I'm going to go on the record and state that I think it is unreasonable to expect SW to be pushing towards some sort of holodeck experience.

    That would be a video game. What sets an RPG apart from a cRPG is the freedom that interacting with a live person as a DM gives the players and the open world that results from this freedom.

    To expect the richness of a traditional RPG and the visual experience of an automated 3d video game is asking too much.

  2. #942
    Quote Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
    I don't work for SW.

    I'm going to go on the record and state that I think it is unreasonable to expect SW to be pushing towards some sort of holodeck experience.

    That would be a video game. What sets an RPG apart from a cRPG is the freedom that interacting with a live person as a DM gives the players and the open world that results from this freedom.

    To expect the richness of a traditional RPG and the visual experience of an automated 3d video game is asking too much.
    I respect your opinion.

    However, I do not understand your reasoning.

    It would be a video game experience, yes, but that is exactly what FG is doing now, providing us a virtual tabletop experience.

    I believe having the experience of walking up to a door, not seeing a full map, not knowing what is behind that door, the experience of going through that door - would provide a different experience than masking the map so no one can see.

    Add dim lighting or complete darkness as you walk through the door - until your mage or priest summons a source of light or someone lights a torch - that would be a different experience.

    I do not believe it would take away from the gaming experience, I believe it would enhance the experience.

    That is just my opinion though - worth about as much as the words on this page.
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  3. #943
    Honken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantherin View Post
    I was not able to find too many details...but I did find it was in development 7 years before it was released.

    That was enough to give me a big picture of what it took.

    It was released in 2012, I remember because I am a founding member of its release and have followed them all these years off and on.
    Wikipedia states that ZeniMax had 250 employees 2012.

    Just some info...
    /H
    Last edited by Honken; May 21st, 2019 at 16:44.


    We don't stop playing because we grow old,
    we grow old because we stop playing!


    Now running Shadowrun 3e, playing Coriolis and Eon.

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Honken View Post
    The wikipedia states that ZeniMax had 250 employees 2012.

    Just some info...
    /H
    I saw that as well, just didn't want to use that as a source, as it is not a reliable research source.

    Yes, 250 versus 5 is a huge gap in productivity.

    I definitely see the data to support the point being made.
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  5. #945
    JohnD's Avatar
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    From personal experience, one thing about using a 3d environment is the amount of time you spend realizing that environment.

    In FG now the DM can provide a descriptive paragraph or simply go with an ad hoc description of what's important to set the scene.

    In a 3d environment, you have to show everything. That means a pile of crates can't just be described it has to be shown. Ultimately that's what players will expect.

    I had this driven home when I was using NWN 2. I built a sewer adventure area that took me in excess of 48 hours from start to finish. My players breezed through it in just 45 minutes. That's when I stopped using those programs and started looking for something better which led me to FG.
    DMing since 1979. Ultimate License holder.

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    Thanks for 7+ years of gaming via FG my friends (2e / 3.5e / Rolemaster Classic / Castles & Crusades / Pathfinder / Savage Worlds / 5e).

    There/Their/They're are all different words and do not mean the same thing.

  6. #946
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    I had this driven home when I was using NWN 2. I built a sewer adventure area that took me in excess of 48 hours from start to finish. My players breezed through it in just 45 minutes. That's when I stopped using those programs and started looking for something better which led me to FG.
    Indeed. I released a couple of modules for NWM; took me the best part of 18 months (evenings and weekends). If you ignored the side quests the main quest took about 6 hours to complete. I never actually played the game - I only created a couple of adventures and you could do some powerful stuff with the scripting. But it would never do as a VTT unless the adventure was prepared by someone else and you could just run it. And I'm not sure that I would want to run a game like that anyway; takes too much away from the imagination as noted above. You can't just describe the pile of crates they have to be there.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea to the wish list http://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

  7. #947
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    From personal experience, one thing about using a 3d environment is the amount of time you spend realizing that environment.

    In FG now the DM can provide a descriptive paragraph or simply go with an ad hoc description of what's important to set the scene.

    In a 3d environment, you have to show everything. That means a pile of crates can't just be described it has to be shown. Ultimately that's what players will expect.

    I had this driven home when I was using NWN 2. I built a sewer adventure area that took me in excess of 48 hours from start to finish. My players breezed through it in just 45 minutes. That's when I stopped using those programs and started looking for something better which led me to FG.
    Yep, I can see how that would be exhausting and frustrating.

    48 Hours does not equal 45 mins in any way shape or form...but I do admire your dedication and devotion to the players.

    A good GM is hard to find and when you do find one, you never want to let go - I have a few in my life, that have stopped running games due to the amount of work it takes - they have jobs and families.

    I completely understand, but I do miss being at their table (virtual or real).

    I do get it, but it doesn't make the heart stop wanting that enhanced 3D gaming experience.
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  8. #948
    I prefer googling some nice battlemaps or photoshop some myself, then leave the rest to my descriptions as a GM during the running of the game.

    For myself, though it's a nice concept and all to have 3D maps, currently I can foresee a number of issues with trying to use 3D maps instead of 2D ones for combat.
    Just a few to spring to mind in a couple of minutes:

    * Cost in time for preparation. A 5-10 minute job, becomes hours.
    * Lack of available content, such as maps and tokens.
    * Cost due to lack of content, having to buy 3D modules in place of tokens. As opposed to the vast quantity already available for 2D or ease of creating new 2D tokens with a picture and Photoshop.
    * Incompatibility with monster manuals as all only come with 2D digital art to turn into tokens. Thus again, lack of content.
    * Lock in with vendors of 3D modules as you either can't make your own, or doing so would take hours for each token.

    The list goes on. Maybe sometime in the far off future we'll have something like that which is viable, but for now I see to many obstacles to make it a beneficial solution as far as my GM style and preparation goes.

    ps. I know there is currently a new VTT being designed that offers just this, you could google to find it I'm sure. But while it looks nice and all, it has all the issues above and it's a simple dice roller thing more or less. Doesn't even compare to FG at the most basic level in functionality.
    Last edited by Styrmir; May 21st, 2019 at 21:49.
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  9. #949
    Well and I think the big part of it too is going to be internet connection. Do you go from brokering the connection to having an online server mediating it? Then you have to ask how people with poor net connections on their own are going to handle it.

  10. #950

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    Please knows somebody how many players connections at once FG allows?
    I meand how many computers in same time could join session without having lag or freeze problems, is it somehow limited?
    The most important rules of FG - 1.) drag player portraits onto the Combat tracker!
    2.) Drag NPCs onto the Combat Tracker! 3.) Drag icons from the Combat Tracker onto the Map!

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