Let's talk about UX, baby.

[EileenBear]

Okay, to start. Fantasy Grounds has some jank to it. Understandable jank, but jank nonetheless. I love the program, and I want to see it grow, and I have high hopes for the Unity version - but from what I've seen they're trying to port the same poor UX to a new engine, which makes me wonder - Why?
Fantasy Grounds has weird UX. So many different contrasting design theories go into it in an unpleasant way. Everything in the UX uses really crisp leathery or papery textures, which causes the eyes to be drawn to everything rather than the important elements that should be interacted with.
I think that maybe floating windows is the world's biggest mistake.
Floating windows, rather than make fantasy grounds feel like its own unique desktop (is that what they were going for???), make fantasy grounds feel like a cluttered mess. I have no idea why they don't just have dockable dialogs for the combat tracker, and a dropdown menu for the assets. They try to present as much information as possible on the same page, and it creates this overwhelming, overbearing energy that's kinda a turn-off. Some things are acceptable as floating menus. The character sheet is pretty fine, though I don't see why it can't just be docked somewhere safe and sound. Books are always good to have floating. If it has stuff you want to drag to your character sheet or the chat? probably fine to leave it floating, really.
(Also, why is everything leather, by default?)
My biggest thought here is... Maybe we can replace the background with a battlemat / main image display.
Secondary images can be displayed in a small floating or docked window dropped off in the lower right corner, [a space which could be cleared up, provided assets are moved to a simple dropdown. (also provided the images actually scale properly and don't cause as many problems.)]
I feel this creates something more consistent with the skeuomorphic design theory that y'all clearly had in mind (if you're reading this) with the dice! A battlemat isn't something you float off onto your desktop and resize. The battlemat is the table. You put your sprite, dice, and chips right on the edge of it because *the mat* is front and center.
A battlemat in the background would tie things together, really. There's rarely any reason for an image to not be displayed in the background.
Images and maps could be moved from the righthand assets menu off to a menu on the background mat itself that can quickly change the image, or toggle which image is displayed in the main display and secondary display.
The only thing that may stay put the same is the chat menu, seeing as it's so important. Though maybe it could become more transparent and low-profile over the battlemat, should that change come about?
Maybe the combat tracker could dock just above or beside the chat menu, seeing as the two are so interlinked in a lot of the interactions.
There's a lot to go through here, and there's a lot of different features of Fantasy Grounds that I think could just be "a little bit better".
It's a program that works, and I still shill for it all the time, but after a year, I've grown tired of some of its more annoying design failings. Give me menus or give me death.

[Zacchaeus]

Add or vote (since I'm sure someone has made all of those suggestions already) on the wish list. Link in my signature.

[damned]

Why do people focus only on the bit that the UI is not changing in any drastic way and ignore the reasons why?
The Unity project might never arrive if a UI rebuild becomes part of the scope.

The Unity port is a massive undertaking - especially for a company the size of SmiteWorks.
Give or take - 50% of the companies dedicated developer resources have been dedicated to Unity since the project began.
Over the same time the current engine has had 20 odd version upgrades.
Over the same time the volume of DLC has increased 500%.

A major UI rebuild is not like casting Magic Missile... its a huge undertaking.
And UI rebuilds are in no way guaranteed to be successful or popular.

As it is Unity has taken SmiteWorks far longer than they had anticipated or planned - and I would suggest cost them far, far more than budgeted.

I would hate to see how much longer it would add with a major UI rebuild.

Once Unity is out, and bugs ironed out Im sure that the UI will receive plenty of attention - what they come up with will be interesting - but Im pretty sure that both Moon Wizard and Doug both like that Fantasy Grounds does not look like every other application on the market...

Im sure the post is well meaning - but more likely it will devolve into a bunch of circular arguments from those who love the UI and those that want something different.

Disclaimer: My opinions only. Worth only what opinions are worth.

[The High Druid]

One of the (many) reasons I prefer FG oover the alternatives is the tabletop recreation, I would very much prefer *not* to see it turn into something more like Roll20 which just feels like the front end of an Access database.

While maps are important, and I like the idea of map as the background, I have never found the "map is front and centre" to be true when playing around a real table. The map is in the middle of the table, and the character sheet, dice, rulebooks etc are all between the players and the map, and you are rarely trying to focus on the map and your character sheet at the same time. Likewise (for us at least) you don't roll your dice across the map because doing that invites disaster (or at least scattering the minatures across the table when you get too enthusiastic with your fireball).


The one thing I would say, is that we could do with a more friendly method to customise the UI, to enable you to make the table look how you want, rather than 'imposing' the same look on everyone.

[EileenBear]

I'm sure, and maybe I was a bit too confrontational in the post, and I don't mean to insist that things change immediately - but I feel like looking different doesn't necessarily mean that it looks better.

You know what I mean? I want something more comfortable than the rest of what's on the market, not more unintuitive.

[damned]

I'm sure, and maybe I was a bit too confrontational in the post, and I don't mean to insist that things change immediately - but I feel like looking different doesn't necessarily mean that it looks better.

You know what I mean? I want something more comfortable than the rest of what's on the market, not more unintuitive.

My reply is not an attack and I apologise if I came across too strongly or otherwise offended.

[EileenBear]

It doesn't ever feel like a tabletop recreation to me. Oftentimes it feels like they took more design cues from a Microsoft Windows desktop than sheets on a table.

I also hate Roll20's design. It's a disaster of trying to replicate a google-like application without much understanding what makes that sort of design comfortable. It's ugly as hell, honestly.

My ideal VTT is like... Somewhere between FG's automation and Tabletop sim's 3d environment. Which is really what Fantasy Grounds is likely to become more like once the Unity update comes through - and that's pretty great really. And I feel like FG is closer to that ideal than anything else.

But we shouldn't have to take inconvenient design that needs to be *explained*, verbally, or in a manual to new players over something well-designed.
If it isn't immediately understood, and it doesn't make effort to explain itself, oftentimes it's just bad UX.

I feel like we should just interview a bunch of new players, track what questions they ask and what they're confused about, and then work to *change* that?

[EileenBear]

Nah, you're all good - and you're totally right about me maybe expecting too much change from the Unity update.

I would like to see some improvements in the UX, just not at the expense of other major updates.

[Trenloe]

I would like to see some improvements in the UX.

I'm sure with Jen now on board that there will be more focus on UX.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...rks-is-growing!

[EileenBear]

I'm sure with Jen now on board that there will be more focus on UX.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...rks-is-growing!

Oh, exciting!