having problems as DM

[kalmarjan]

If you multiclass BAB do not stack, you only use the higher.

Not true.

Pg 59, Phb:

Add the base attack bonuses aquired for each class to get the character's base attack bonus.

Sandeman

[richvalle]

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedCritical

[kalmarjan]

If you think this is bad, under the 3.0 rules, a 10th level barbarian with that 45 str and the improved critical using the greataxe would have dealt up to 4d12+88 damage. (4d12+104 while greater raging!)

Throw in Greater Weapon Specialization, ad you are looking at a sick (4d12+130 with a crit). Now that for a 10th level character would make me throw my dice at the player. (OTOH, it would be my fault for letting him have the 45 Str. )

Puts it into perspective why you would not have someone with 45 Str.

Sandeman

[TheIronPriest]

got3.5 edition PHB to go along with everything else i have thats 3.5.
now a question of curiosity, how does gestalt multiclassing work? im a player in a campaign where we are gestalt characters. I dont have the books on it, and i know my DM will explain it to me when we go to create characters tomorrow, but I figure if i can find out sooner than why not.

my first question about gestlat, is the BAB and saves. do you just add them together like multiclassing says?
ex:
lvl 3 fighter- BAB- 3 Fort-3 ref-1 will-1
lvl 3 ninja- BAB-2 Fort-1 ref-1 will-1
class lvl 6, character lvl 3 (if playing gestalt)
total stats- BAB-5 Fort-4 ref-2 will-2?
or do i just take the best stats from each and go with that making it:
total stats BAB-5 Fort-3 ref-1 will-1?
Im pretty sure based on what the PHB said that its the former of the two.

[richvalle]

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/c...Characters.htm

[krager26]

Honestly?

This sounds like a really bad joke. I'm going to treat this as if it is serious, but I can't shake the feeling that some fella is reading these replies and laughing his head off.

To start with I'm going to assume you are not only inexperienced as a DM but you are also inexperienced as a player and fairly young too. This can be a lethal combination. You got yourself into this mess, the good news is you can get yourself out.

Your players sound like power gamers. Nothing wrong with that as long as you want to run a power game also. If you don't want to run a power game then you have a problem.

What rules version are you using? Can we assume 3 or 3.5?

Your biggest problem is that you don't understand the rules very well. You should stick to the guidelines in the PH and DMG, they're there to avoid situations just like the one you find yourself in. Any DM worth his salt would never make a House Rule that gives a player an attribute of 45 if he rolls a triple-1 unless he had a mechanic to balance it out. The problem you face with this kind of arbitrary rule, aside from the absurdly high BAB that outpaces the PC's other attributes, is that it unbalances the entire party. If you pit suitable foes for the character with 45 STR against the party, the other PCs are going to get wasted. You've created a serious imbalance that is going to make things difficult for you regardless of what you do.

You can pit a Great Wyrm against the PCs, you can pit two-dozen Great Wyrms, and it won't solve the issue. The only solution available to you is to talk to both players, explain that you made a mistake on the House Rule and that their characters are over-powered and breaking the game and ask them to voluntarily power down their characters to a more reasonable level. Go to the PH and DMG, look at comparable characters of 12th level and rebuild em. The point buy system is always a wise choice because it avoids huge disparities between character abilities. The DMG will tell you how much wealth a 12th level character should have, check their weapons and equipment against the listed wealth and if they are overly wealthy adjust it down. Once you have those characters balanced again they can set out to hunt and slay dragons once more, they'll just have to be wiser in their approach.

No character at 12th level can have 18 attacks, as pointed out you get 1 AOO per round, and Combat Reflexes gives you extra AOO equal to your Dex bonus.

If your players won't voluntarily do this then you need to find new players.

I would like to add a few thoughts to this. First off you can only take one attack of opportunity against any one opponent in any given round even if the opponent provokes several attacks from the same PC in that same round. It is irrelevant how many attacks the PC normally gets in a full attack action. This attack is taken at his highest attack roll and is modified by any modifiers applied to the attackers roll on that round for instance if that person had used a power attack that round the attack of opportunity would also reflect the decrease in attack and increase in damage. It also sounds like you are running an out of control game that will end up with every one bored because what’s victory to some one who doesn’t know defeat?

Starts over read the DM guide again and keep it more reasonable. And try not to use silly house rules unless you really considered how it would affect your game. I like the point buy in system for rolling up stats it helps keep the players more competitive and prevents one PC from dominating the game just because he had one lucky streak with the dice. Good luck I am also new to FG but not new to this game.

[kalmarjan]

I would like to add a few thoughts to this. First off you can only take one attack of opportunity against any one opponent in any given round even if the opponent provokes several attacks from the same PC in that same round. It is irrelevant how many attacks the PC normally gets in a full attack action. This attack is taken at his highest attack roll and is modified by any modifiers applied to the attackers roll on that round for instance if that person had used a power attack that round the attack of opportunity would also reflect the decrease in attack and increase in damage. It also sounds like you are running an out of control game that will end up with every one bored because what’s victory to some one who doesn’t know defeat?

Starts over read the DM guide again and keep it more reasonable. And try not to use silly house rules unless you really considered how it would affect your game. I like the point buy in system for rolling up stats it helps keep the players more competitive and prevents one PC from dominating the game just because he had one lucky streak with the dice. Good luck I am also new to FG but not new to this game.

The first statement: You are so close to being right. You may take more than 1 attack of opportunity against a foe if they do a completely different action than the first that caused the original attack of opportunity. For example, if you have 10 ft reach, and a spell caster moves out of one of your threatening spaces, you get an AoO. If that spell caster then tried to cast a spell while in a space you threatened, then if you had combat reflexes, you could take that AoO also. See page PHB 137:

...Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: if you have the Combat Reflexes Feat (page 92), you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack per given opportunity, but if the opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you - such as moving out of a threatened square and then casting a spell in a threatened square - you could make two seperate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round does not count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Also, the AoO uses your full modifier for the full attack action, but if you have used an action in that round (such as FoB) that causes you to have a penalty to your attack roll, that applies.

You can also make special attacks such as trips, disarms etc... in that AoO, but then depending on feats that you have, you can start AoO chains.

Two excellent articles on AoO are here:

• https://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041026a
• https://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a

For your second statement, couldn't agree more. OTOH, making mistakes like this are what is fun about the game. You really get to see the impact on balance of play when you play or twist the rules.

Anyway, have fun gaming.

Sandeman

[krager26]

While you are 100% correct in 3.5 rules I would like to point one other thing out : In the orginal posting the DM stated that his ranger had an ambidextrous feat this feat was removed in 3.5 because the creators felt it was not necessary so I assumed that the DM was playing with the 3.0 Rules where this feat was still included. Now I will admit it has been awhile since I have DM'ed a 3.0 session I belived i was correct because the 3.0 rule regarding AoO was a little unclear about that so i may have made the incorrect assumption about that. If i am mistaken I humbly beg your pardon. So correct me if I was wrong. but after all the DM is NEVER wrong even when he wont admit it. HA HA Maybe we can have a DM summit so we can hammer all these issues out. good luck and let the games begin.

The first statement: You are so close to being right. You may take more than 1 attack of opportunity against a foe if they do a completely different action than the first that caused the original attack of opportunity. For example, if you have 10 ft reach, and a spell caster moves out of one of your threatening spaces, you get an AoO. If that spell caster then tried to cast a spell while in a space you threatened, then if you had combat reflexes, you could take that AoO also. See page PHB 137:



Also, the AoO uses your full modifier for the full attack action, but if you have used an action in that round (such as FoB) that causes you to have a penalty to your attack roll, that applies.

You can also make special attacks such as trips, disarms etc... in that AoO, but then depending on feats that you have, you can start AoO chains.


Sandeman

[kalmarjan]

LOL

I am far from being able to play part in a DM summit, I am definately not that advanced. OTOH, as things come up, I learn about them, and in 3.0 and 3.5 the issue of AoO come up a lot.

As for Ambidexterity, the Devs at WOTC dropped it because it broke the ranger class. If you had a Ranger with this feat, you would end up with two attacks using two weapons without any penalties. By the time you got to the upper levels, you were kicking butt! (Causing DM's to cry all over the world.)

Sandeman

[Craw]

As for a Str of 45 for a 10th level character, it is not really that hard to get if you try hard enough...

Sandeman

OK, I'll bite. How do you get a 10th level character to 45. I'm assuming a start of 20 with adding the 4th and 8th bonuses. So now there are only 23 points of strength to make up. I am only coming up with another 6 or so off the top of my head. I don't doubt you, I'm just hoping to expand my knowledge here.