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  1. #1

    Maps, layers and characters.

    I've been using Roll20 for a bit in order to reconnect with my D&D friends that do not live nearby. I've gotten accustomed to the way that they do layers. i.e. map layer, token layer, DM layer, etc... Over there I picked up some dungeon square and dressing packs as well as the PHB there for use with their "Charactermancer" which really works great. Roll20 has the dynamic lighting which I do like but it is supposed to be there when Unity releases.

    I've not played with FG much yet as I didn't want to pull the trigger on another monthly sub to play with the map creation tools. And I'm here kind of as a result of the ongoing reddit fiasco.

    So...
    Maps. What is the limit on the size of maps? Can you tag one to the next? If you bring in external image tiles, is there a snap to grid?
    Layers. I like in Roll20, that I can stage mobs off on the DM layer and shift them over to the token layer when ready to be used.
    Character creation. Does FG have a character generating sheet based off of the PHB?

    This is already answered somewhere I am sure but I wanted to jump in and get a feel for the community as well.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Maps can be linked to content in various ways (notes, story entries, pins on other maps, minimized to the desktop, etc..). By default there is only one layer per-se. So selecting tokens can be an interesting affair by default if you have a lot and there is overlap. Yet, there is an extension (Advanced Kombat) that has 3 layers that can be used like you describe. I've been using it in my campaign with no issues so far. I'll put spell area effects on a layer, it does blood splatters (which the group likes because it shows their path through the dungeon), and so forth. FG has what is called a combat tracker along with encounter grouping/management - you have a number of staging options for creatures (even more with the Advanced Kombat extension). Yes, player character sheets are highly automated as long as you have access to the PHB in FG. If you don't, content has to be manually entered to create the same automation. For example, with the PHB you can just drag and drop a class onto a character sheet and it leads you through the options, sets skills, adds feats and abilities, etc..

  3. #3
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    The stand alone layers extension is available here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-on-CoreRPG%29

    Be aware of the gotchas - there are limitations to it in the current FG architecture.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  4. #4
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    Hi bakerjw welcome to the forums.

    You need to have a different midset to operate FG as opposed to how Roll20 does things (At least as far as I understand it - since I've never used Roll20).

    At any rate combat in FG is handled by a combat tracker. Tokens are just an object on a map which represents a character or an NPC. It's just a token; it doesn't have anything attached to it. From my understanding Roll20 uses tokens somewhat differently. So if you want to add more NPCs to a map then this is done by means of an encouinter. You prepare the NPCs in advance adding them to the map where you want them etc and then you close the encounter and pin it to either the map or a story which itself can be pinned to a map.

    When you are ready to introduce the NPCs you open the encounter, push a button, and the NPCs are placed (invisibly) on the Combat Tracker and on the map. You can then control when these NPCs pop up into existance for the players to see.

    Map sizes at the moment are recommended to be no bigger than 2048x2048 and less than 1Mb in size. That isn't a hard limit but going over that too many times can lead to memory issues. However with careful management it isn't a problem.

    You probably want to have a look at some videos so that you can get a handle on how FG works in this respect.

    Currently any maps used in FG are imported into FG and work as an image. You can't paint, draw or add anything to a map in FG itself. All that would need to be done in an external paint package of some kind. Map tiles for example would just be an image of the tile if you added it to FG; you would not be able to create a map in FG using map tiles. This may be something that becomes available in the future however.

    You can chain maps by pinning one map to another. Pins are used for a number of things and the same goes for links. You can create a story with links to encounters, treasure parcels, npcs, tables and other stories. Those stories can then be pinned to maps.

    Characters are created by dragging and dropping background, race, class and equipment into the character sheet. The process will automatically update ability scores, hit points, saving throws, spell slots and a number of other things but FG is not a character generator such as HeroLab or PCGen.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
    I've been using Roll20 for a bit in order to reconnect with my D&D friends that do not live nearby. I've gotten accustomed to the way that they do layers. i.e. map layer, token layer, DM layer, etc... Over there I picked up some dungeon square and dressing packs as well as the PHB there for use with their "Charactermancer" which really works great. Roll20 has the dynamic lighting which I do like but it is supposed to be there when Unity releases.
    Yeah I read and commented on that myself on reddit. I knew NolanT was bad when it came to stuff like this but not THIS bad. Glad I moved away from it years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
    I've not played with FG much yet as I didn't want to pull the trigger on another monthly sub to play with the map creation tools. And I'm here kind of as a result of the ongoing reddit fiasco.
    Just incase you aren't aware, you can buy stand alone licenses and dodge the monthly fee entirely. I believe they have a 30 day money back policy if you purchase a license.


    Quote Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
    So...
    Maps. What is the limit on the size of maps? Can you tag one to the next? If you bring in external image tiles, is there a snap to grid?
    Layers. I like in Roll20, that I can stage mobs off on the DM layer and shift them over to the token layer when ready to be used.
    Character creation. Does FG have a character generating sheet based off of the PHB?
    Map Size: They recommend you stick to 2000x2000 I believe, but I am happily going way over that limit. Which reminds me I need to go make a video next session to show to people who said it was impossible in another thread. And by way over I mean 12k x 9k.
    You can tag all sorts of things to maps with the link system, it is different but better and more versatile than roll20's options by a long shot.
    With large images, until we get more stable x64 support you will want to unshare them from the players intermittently (it is a simple right click unshare) I tend to do it every 10 or so large battlemaps. (15-20MB jpgs)

    Square grids are easy in FG compared to R20, just draw it to the pixels and nudge it with the controls. I tend to favour 50px or 100px grids personally.
    Hex grid scaling is difficult if you are matching an existing grid.


    Layers: FG doesn't have layers built in sadly (FGU will) however there are extensions that let you have layers. As for monsters, monsters can be hidden in a number of ways and default to hidden when brought onto the combat tracker. You can also create "encounters" where you can preplace the monsters on the map and when you click add to combat tracker or generate the the monsters will be added to all the locations you put them on before as well as populating the combat tracker rolling initiatives and such.

    Character creation: I am not entirely sure what you are asking here, but FG has drag and drop character creation that when you get a handle on it is exceptionally fast. I can create a level 10 to 20 spellcaster in a matter of about 15 minutes easily.
    Because it isn't web based you don't have any latency delay and searching is very fast.


    Quote Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
    This is already answered somewhere I am sure but I wanted to jump in and get a feel for the community as well.
    Thanks
    I suggest you check out FG college as I hear good things, I just kinda brute forced myself into learning the system but that is the kinda guy I am.
    https://fantasygroundscollege.net/

    For 5e or Pathfinder there is no current equal when it comes to VTT software, it is very flawed and unity will go a long way to fixing some of those flaws but the benefits are huge as a DM when you learn it.

    Some of the flaws to be aware of.
    - Map drawing tools suck, the pencil tool is awful and incredibly rudimentary.
    - RAM management, I have never run into issues with RAM for me or my players. But I have heard that others have and know that the program does mismanage RAM.
    - Poor network code, on slow internet connections you want your players to connect a good half hour to hour before the first session starts or after major content updates. By slow I am talking 100KBps upload speeds and under. Being an Australian who was stuck with ADSL2+ until the last year it sucked. Mind you I also had 5-6 players connecting and all of them leeching content from my ultimate license.
    - No dynamic lighting, you know this, I just miss it for LoS.
    - Terrible documentation, the community picks up a bunch of the slack and some wiki pages are well maintained. But others are not.

    If you run 5e I suggest looking over this page to get a feel of how much automation is possible when playing around with the program.
    All the SRD content is freely available too so it is easy to test 5e content, but the paid content is much better.
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/...php/5E_Effects

  6. #6
    Here's what you need to know to get started using Fantasy Grounds if you're used to Roll20.


    1. You don't create a blank map, then add an image to it. Instead, click on the Maps tab on the right of the Fantasy Grounds window, then the folder button on the top left of the Maps window that pops up. Add your map image to the folder, and FG will then have a link to it on the maps tab pop-up. Clicking the link will open that image in Fantasy Grounds. To do do stuff with it, you'll need to make sure that it is unlocked, which is a little icon on the top right of the image window.
    2. Right click the image to add a grid to it. Unlike Roll20 where you adjust the image to fit the grid, here you set the grid to fit the image. There will be a toolbar at the top of the map for adjustments. This is one of the few areas where I think Roll20 has an advantage, because getting the grid just right can be fiddly. I generally use Gimp to make sure the image is grid-ready before putting into FG. There is no "map layer," there is just the image, that is the map.
    3. You know those tools Roll20 has to draw on the map with colors and shapes, and add text? Well, sorry... Fantasy Grounds has a pen. That's it. Again, Roll20 does maps well, but Fantasy Grounds beats it in other areas. You'll see.
    4. Once you have a map and a grid, you want to add some PCs and NPCs to it, right? No! Never add a character or creature directly to the map, it'll just sit there useless. Add the character to the combat tracker, then drag it to the map from the combat tracker. Once you get used to it, it is a much, much more elegant way to handle things. Want to change the token for Strahd when he turns into a dire wolf? No problem, just drag a wolf token to Strahd on the combat tracker, and it will update the token on the map. You don't have to set everything up all over again to associate a new token with a character, you just drag the new picture and drop it on the old picture, and the links and associations are handled for you.
    5. To make a token disappear, you don't move it to the GM layer. Instead, you'll see a little eye next to it on the combat tracker. Clicking that will make the token invisible or visible to players. There is an eye on the top of the combat tracker that will set all the NPCs to visible/invisible. Unless you use the extension, there is only one layer for tokens on the image. To be honest, the extension is great when you really need it but it is a pain the rest of the time. For example, if you set up an encounter ahead of time and then hit the button to drop the npcs into the tracker, it will put their tokens on the bottom layer when you want them on the top layer (so that your players can interact with them.) It is a function that needs to be built into the base program, and probably will be, but isn't yet.


    Anyway, that should get you started.
    Last edited by epithet; September 27th, 2018 at 05:18.

  7. #7
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epithet
    For example, if you set up an encounter ahead of time and then hit the button to drop the npcs into the tracker, it will put their tokens on the bottom layer when you want them on the top layer...
    This should not happen with the CoreRPG based layers extension. There’s been code in the extension for a number of years that place pre-placed tokens in an encounter on the top (play) layer, even if they were from an encounter created without the extension. If this is not working, then please provide further details (ruleset, versions, etc.) so I can track down the issue and fix it if necessary. Thanks.
    Last edited by Trenloe; September 27th, 2018 at 16:32.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
    Here's what you need to know to get started using Fantasy Grounds if you're used to Roll20.

    ....

    Anyway, that should get you started.
    Excellent synopsis of the process!

    Well done

  9. #9
    Maybe we need a focused group of pre-Roll20 users (either here or in FGC) to help people with the transition and deal with specific questions on how to achieve a equivalent action?

  10. #10

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