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Thread: 13A Bug Reports

  1. #51
    Maybe something interesting: If you click on the library button, and click on the e.g. feats button/text on top, instead if opening the reference manual, you can drag and drop entries. If you would use the normal reference manual approach (because it‘s sorted by class and level), it‘s not working at all. Just as a workaround.
    The playtesters must have been ‚very special‘.

  2. #52
    Hi Everyone,

    Updates & Fixes - let me start out by saying "Sorry its taken me a while to get these sorted".

    Below is a list of all of the outstanding Bugs identified by the Post Number that they were first reported under, along with (when necessary) a brief explanation, etc. But first let me remind everyone of a basic, fundamental fact about the 13th Age RPG - especially when compared to 5E and/or PF (for example): 13A is way, way more "unstructured" than a lot of other RPGs. By this I mean that the 13th Age is more "free-form" than 5E (for example) with instructions in the rulebook along the lines of "Do whatever the GM feels is right in this situation" or "The GM decides upon the result". So, instead of having a hard-and-fast rule for a given situation, or a fixed set of (limited) options to choose from for a character, the 13th Age is designed from the start to allow the GM and the Players to "do pretty much what they want." This is one of the strengths of 13th age, and one of the reasons its so popular.

    Unfortunately, computers don't work this way. Computes *need* hard-and-fast rules and lack the ability to handle "fuzzy decisions". This means that, by design, the 13th Age Ruleset has a lot less automation than other, more "rigid" Rulesets (such as 5E). So when using the 13A Ruleset the Players and the GM can't rely on FG to do as much of the "work" as they can expect when using the 5E Ruleset. For example: because most classes in 13A can choose 3 of a number of starting Abilities (Powers) when starting out, the 13A CoreRules module lists those abilities along with the instruction to "Choose 3". Players can then drag their three choices to the character sheet (yes, that's now working), along with all the other choices they can make. This is but one limited example of design choices made by the Ruleset Dev Team to get the Ruleset done and in the hands of those desperately wanting it. Could we have coded all of the options, then presented them in a pop-up window when a class was dragged to a blank character sheet? Yes, but we'd still be coding the thing now if we had gone that route, which means that the 13A Ruleset still wouldn't be available.

    TL DR - The 13th Age Ruleset, by design, doesn't have all the "bells-&-whistles" automation of the 5E Ruleset because the 13th Age RPG is more "free-form" than 5th Ed D&D.

    • Issue 17 - Cannot reproduce crash. @Eneko and @scotryder: can you provide any more detail info, please.
    • Issue 19, 36, 46 (and other similar issues) - Missing Stats - Fixed
    • Issue 37 - Character/Class Sheet Drag & Drop - As Designed (see explanation above)
    • Issue 40.1 - Backgrounds - As Designed. The play tests used Note Entries on those rare occasions they need too.
    • Issue 40.2 - Default DC 15 Background Checks - Still resolving.
    • Issue 40.3 - Multi- Miss Damage - this is as designed (at the moment) - still being investigated, may treat as a feature (see below).
    • Issue 40.4 - Weapons/Inventory - As Designed (see explanation above).
    • Issue 41 - Not as issue. When adding a Power (on the Powers Tab) and then a Power Action (from the Radial Menu) if you expand the Damage details section (by clicking on the right-hand Down Arrow) you can set Ability Scores, Level, etc, by clicking on the blank entryfield boxes and cycle through the options.
    • Issue 42 - Formatting of Text Boxes - More detail required, please (although I suspect this is as design).
    • Issue 48 - Escalation Die - Cannot reproduce. Could more info be provided, please.
    • Issue 50 - Drag & Drop Feats - Fixed


    The updated Ruleset, etc, has gone to SmiteWorks for inclusion on the FG Updater - they'll send them out when they're ready (in the past its taken between a couple of days and a couple of weeks). In the meantime, if people could get back to me with the requested info then I'd appreciate it. I'm also updating the Ruleset for the new FGv3.3.7 (currently in the Test Channel) - if people could let me know if there are any issues there I'll get them fixed as well.

    Finally, I'm open to discussing (politely) feature updates/improvements - but people need to realise that I don't get paid for any of this work - its all volunteer work, so it sometimes gets a lower priority than paid ICT work (which I do for a living) and/or family and my own relaxation/gaming/coding.

    Cheers
    Dulux-Oz

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  3. #53
    Thanks for the update, dulux-uz. It is good to hear that some fixes are on the horizon.

    With regards to features, bell and whistle automation isnt necessarily what is needed or desired (by me at least).

    I would suggest that having drag and drop races and classes that live as clickable reference points on the character sheet is a common staple of many rulesets that are not present here and would be welcome.

    I would further suggest that better tagged talents/feats that could be effectively sorted via drop downs (by class, level or tier, etc) would be valuable as well. Please see the PF2 ruleset for an example of this.

    I am still doing campaign prep but one thing that the 13A rules has are ways of modifying creatures on the fly to be double/triple strength but I can find no way to do this easily other than make a copy of the creature and manually increase the hp and damage numbers.

    There are other similar "ease of use" items which would be great to see put into this ruleset. I cant speak from great experience since I am still prepping for my first 13A campaign. I can just say that I own 5e, Savage Worlds, and CoC7. I have also played around with the recent, free, PF2 beta ruleset. All seem a good bit cleaner and more completely implemented. Again, I don't mean automation. I am talking about drag and drop functionality on the character sheet and the sheet acting as an effective reference point for players.

    One major thing I have not yet tested which I am concerned about is how well the sheet handles helping players track thier powers (which powers are used, recharge rolls, dailies, etc). This should certainly be implemented, I hope, but I am concerned that it may not be.

    I can appreciate that you do not get paid for this but, as a consumer, I was not alerted on the product page that this would only be partially implemented or supported. If anything, my expectations were high since the cost was high and the ruleset was a recent FG addition. Furthermore, I, as a consumer, am not privy to the dealings of SW and its publishing partners. All I had was a product page that listed a ruleset I was interested in.
    Last edited by Datalore; November 21st, 2018 at 07:29.

  4. #54
    Let me say thank you for voluntarily fixing bugs in the 13th Age system, when you should have been paid - as we customers have been paying smiteworks - for a supported ruleset. Sometimes it is faster and more transparent to show issues directly. If you would like to, I would be able to explain them via our own teamspeak server and using teamviewer in 10 minutes. Please send a private email to align in this case.

    Issue #37 - Drag and drop of race and class descriptions text only, without any automation involved from the reference manual to the character sheet will avoid to search the reference manual entry every time you look up your character sheet specifics. For ‚Race‘ you select one race specific feat. It would enrich the character development process, if a pop-up prompts you to select one, as e.g. winthin the 5E ruleset. Just copy & paste text description entries into the character sheet, to find them more easily, instead of digging through the ruleset, no fancy stat changes.

    Issue #40.1 - Background text line will occupy approx. 30 letters. I find it too short for a detailed description, it clutters up the sheet, instead of structuring the description with a keyword, and an explanation with a linked window pop-up to put additional text into. It is no real error, but makes it more difficult to enjoy the readability of the character sheet. Take it as an suggestion for improvement. I noticed creating a note, and drag and drop this note from the notes window onto the Background character sheet tab, right hand sideagter ‚Total‘, will create a red bullet linking to it.
    I think it‘s a workaround we can live with, although not to use ‚notes‘, but having a red bullet you can edit directly would be nice.

    Issue #40.4 - Shouldn‘t be by design nature. For those not knowing the workaround I figured out, it makes it impossible to create own entries for new weapons in further extensions, or by localization. If more information needed, I‘d be happy to provide more details as mentioned above.

    Issue #41 - The standard functionality to add spell attributes is well known and works good for other rulesets, however with the very 13th Age specific requirement to have spells reflect to add damage including the ‚level‘ of the character, this cannot be added. Again, more comprehensive investigation and details required, I‘d guess.

    Issue #42 - Formatting of text poxes is working with story text entries, but not with reference text e.g. from newly entered feats, which e.g. require to add tables for better readability.

    Issue #48.1 - With the latest release I cannot reproduce the issue as well (, but all players during the session we had on 1st of November could see it happen). I think the round counter was set to zero ‚0’. Consider it closed. If it happens again, I‘ll try to precisely track the issue.

    Issue #48.2 - No status mentioned for ability checks of character sheet main tab. Damage applied wrongly, as ‚check‘ value on character main tab is not used, but ‚mod‘ value instead.

    Issue #48.3 - No status mentioned for typo in Bestiary with Kobold Archer Javelin.

    Issue #48.4 - No status mentioned for automatic ‚miss damage‘ by failed attack roll handling.
    Last edited by Targas; November 21st, 2018 at 09:30.

  5. #55
    Each publisher is responsible for keeping their own products updated in the FG store by acquiring a developer to build and maintain their content. We try to facilitate agreements between interested publishers (such as Wizards, Paizo, and more) and interested developers. When we do this, the standard agreement is to pay developers via an ongoing commission specifically to avoid orphaned content as much as we can.

    Pelgrane Press and Dulux set up their own agreement without SmiteWorks involvement and recommendations. Please continue bringing up your concerns to Dulux and Pelgrane.

    If you are unhappy with the DLC, we always offer a 30-day money back guarantee on all our products, specifically because we are selling products from so many publishers with varying degrees of quality and support.

    Regards,
    JPG

  6. #56
    Issue 48.3 - Fixed (I missed mentioning it but it was fixed with the others).

    Issue 48.2 - I'll need to talk to you about it (and I was aware, but couldn't find the issue number )

    Issue 48.4 - MAY be as designed - I'll have to take another look - call it in progress.

    I'll grab you to discuss the others

    And just to clarify things: the original deal I was involved with was to write the Ruleset as a professional job to the satisfaction of my client, for which I was paid. The Ruleset was used by that client's gaming group successfully for a number of years during the development cycle and, apart from the odd typo, was "signed off" as meeting the specs required. Post that contract when the Ruleset was offered for sale I offered to fix any bugs and update the Ruleset when FG was updated, as a volunteer for a period of 12 months, because I knew people wanted to use the Ruleset and I like me work being used (hence my ongoing support of the DOEs, etc) and because I wanted to support SW and FG. I don't set the prices on the FG Store, and I suspect that the price that was set was set primarily by the 13th Age publishers, not SW. My point is that there is no (current) incentive for me to provide any support, apart from my general desire to help out - but if I wasn't doing it them someone else would, which would probably mean even more delays to either this Ruleset of other FG Rulesets (perhaps even FGU) - something to keep in mind, perhaps?
    Dulux-Oz

    √(-1) 2^3 Σ Π
    ...And it was Delicious!


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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    Pelgrane Press and Dulux set up their own agreement without SmiteWorks involvement and recommendations. Please continue bringing up your concerns to Dulux and Pelgrane.
    Actually, it wasn't me, it was Patriarch (my client) - I just did the coding - I've never spoken to Pelgrane at all

    So its of no use to bring concerns to me (apart from me volunteering to fix any bugs).
    Last edited by dulux-oz; November 21st, 2018 at 10:51.
    Dulux-Oz

    √(-1) 2^3 Σ Π
    ...And it was Delicious!


    Alpha-Geek
    ICT Professional
    GMing Since 1982
    NSW, Australia, UTC +10
    LinkedIn Profile: www.linkedin.com/in/mjblack

    Read my FG Blog here.

    Watch our games on Twitch: www.twitch.tv/dulux_oz

    Support Ongoing Video, Ruleset & Extension Development: via PayPal (Send To: [email protected])

    YouTube Channel/Tutorial Playlists: www.youtube.com/c/duluxoz

  8. #58
    Unfortunately it seems the one who can answer and support, being ‚Patriarch‘ doesn‘t seem to exist as a FG user account. The only account with a similar name, called ‚Patriarchy‘ hasn‘t logged into the system for about 11 months. Maybe SmiteWorks and Pelgrane can help sorting things out, to make this a successful ruleset being used? Mind you, the ruleset is not bad, and the 13th Age system is my top roleplaying game currently.
    It just needs abit more love, involvement, and responsibility to make it a success IMHO.

  9. #59

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    I've pushed the updates to this LIVE.
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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by lokiare1 View Post
    I've pushed the updates to this LIVE.
    A big Thank You..

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