Third party Starfinder character creation tools?

[Topdecker]

PC market: 85%
iOS market: 13%
Linux: 2%

Pretty typical industry numbers - if anything, a bit hopeful for Linux.

If we're considering the mobile market, I don't think that a crowd where an expensive app is $5 is gonna start licking their chops to get involved.

Sorry, man, but I don't see this as opening horizons. It is nice to develop for a single platform but that is about it.

The way I see it, I bought a razor. I want more blades - and now I am being told that I need another razor. I bought into the system once and I won't be screwed over by them again.

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[daplunk]

If we're considering the mobile market, I don't think that a crowd where an expensive app is $5 is gonna start licking their chops to get involved.

I'm absolutely considering the mobile market. PC is not even in competition with Mobile IMO when it comes to tabletop role players. VTT is having a huge surge in popularity but there is still a significantly larger portion of players playing face to face and in those situations PC is not king.

And I agree that players will always seek out the cheapest options. But the chatter I've seen indicates there are a few things that will make them open their wallets.

• Availability - The free tools generally don't offer the full solution due to legal limitations (SRD limitations).
• Laziness - Where the tool cannot provide the whole solution, they usually provide a way for the players to fill the gaps, people are lazy though and will in a lot of cases open their wallets to avoid the effort (The lawyers in the 5e circles ensure this is an effective factor).
• Reliability - Will new books come out in an acceptable time-frame? Can the data be trusted when it does? How long does it take for support to fix something?

This can always been seen in the Pathfinder groups when discussion occurs between HLC and PCGen. Sure there are some people that talk up PCGen but there is always more people talking about a poor experience with PCGen, the lack of content, the delay of new content, the quality of the content being in question. Those people paid for HLC because of those reasons.

So while they may not lick their chops at the idea there will still be a large % of people who will open their wallets to ensure they get a quality solution with limited fuss.

We are starting to see this trend in the 5e circles with DnDBeyond. Originally the player base was split. People swore they would never touch it. A few months in some of those people are returning to the discussion saying they tried it, found it reliable and convenient and now swear by it, people are seeing their feedback and in turn getting curious enough to try it. The domino effect continues.

HLO have a long way to go before they reach this stage but they are getting closer with every update. They just released the ability to create custom monsters and npcs for example.

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[Bidmaron]

daplunk, my frustration with them is that those of us who sunk our bucks into the offline version get nothing for our investment. So after years of support and over $1000 (never added it up, but it has been a butt ton), the best they can do is promise me that my offline version will always work (but never get any better)? And now their two premier tools are diverging, as RW shows no indication of moving to an online model (the db tool they based it all on won't support it). I have never personally seen a company with such a dysfunctional development team. It is almost like the RW team and the HL team worked in different universes. Maybe they are doing something different, and I just don't know it. I am so upset with them that I doubt they will ever see another of my $ at this point, and I have stopped following HLO and offline entirely. I still follow RW, for all the good that is doing.

[daplunk]

daplunk, my frustration with them is that those of us who sunk our bucks into the offline version get nothing for our investment. So after years of support and over $1000 (never added it up, but it has been a butt ton), the best they can do is promise me that my offline version will always work (but never get any better)?

This doesn't make me angry in the slightest. Hero Lab Classic has been around for what 11 years? I can't think of any other software that I use that has not been refreshed in that time that is still being actively developed. That's a bloody good innings really and for them to promise that it will always work just means it's better value for money. Given the editor support and community support I have complete faith that it will get better. LWD aren't necessarily required to continue to add value to this program. That's one of the benefits of it being an offline program.

And now their two premier tools are diverging, as RW shows no indication of moving to an online model (the db tool they based it all on won't support it).

What's your source on the online model? Last update I heard about that was it's still on the 'To Do' list but with no update of substance since that YouTube Video.

I have never personally seen a company with such a dysfunctional development team. It is almost like the RW team and the HL team worked in different universes. Maybe they are doing something different, and I just don't know it. I am so upset with them that I doubt they will ever see another of my $ at this point, and I have stopped following HLO and offline entirely. I still follow RW, for all the good that is doing.

This I agree completely with. They need to get their s**t together which I know they are trying to do. They have hired new developers, promoted BJ to VP so she can manage the company and allow Rob get's back to coding Realm Works. The launch of Hero Lab Online is part of the plan. It's a step in the right direction but only time will tell if that's enough to get them back on track. They are not doing themselves any favours with how Realm Works is being managed.

[Topdecker]

I am not gonna pick on RW - it is just too easy. Ok, screw it. Not being able to open a JPG larger than 5mb is just poor for a program that needs to deal with world maps. It should at least be able to keep pace with the Windows image previewer instead of lagging behind.

We'll see about LWD and HLO. Small companies only get so many mis-steps and I suspect that this is a critical year for them. RW and HLO has them bleeding red and now HLO probably needs to be a success - and I don't see it happening.

[daplunk]

Not being able to open a JPG larger than 5mb is just poor for a program that needs to deal with world maps. It should at least be able to keep pace with the Windows image previewer instead of lagging behind.

God yes please give us 64bit. My attempt at an interactive Forgotten Realms Atlas is almost guaranteed to cause a crash on opening the primary map.

[Nylanfs]

Hero Lab is in the exact same location that PCGen is in in regards to Pathfinder and 5e. HL can use SRD and licensed material for PF, we use the Community Policy which amounts to the same thing. And for 5e HL only uses the SRD, and other materials are supplied by the community. Same with PCGen.

[daplunk]

Hero Lab is in the exact same location that PCGen is in in regards to Pathfinder and 5e.

Datawise sure. Once they put it on HLO though HLC moves away from comparisons with PCGen.

[SpringheeledJak]

I used to be a programmer for HeroLab, so I can safely say I have an intimate knowledge of their software. Their company line was that the reason they created HeroLab Online and Starfinder wouldn't be available in HeroLab Classic was that Starfinder needed mechanics that HeroLab Classic didn't support. To test this theory, I tried coding it myself. I was able to make HeroLab Classic do everything it needed to. I was even able to manipulate the Eidolon creation system for summoners into a ship creator. I used the ship equipment as if it was evolutions attributed to ship slots and it seemed to work just fine so duplicating that mechanic for a ship creator wouldn't be too hard. I also don't understand separating the two since Pathfinder content is supposed to be convertible or compatible with Starfinder. I 100% agree with the assumption that HeroLab Online is a lame attempt to milk subscription fees on top of the normal charges for the datasets.

So far the history of Lone Wolf Development is a series of failed promises:

• They promised an iPad and Android version of HeroLab. All we got was an iPad Character sheet before they completely abandoned mobile apps.
• They promised a boat-load of ReamWorks content market and features. Instead it's over 4 years later and none of that has happened.
• They promised that HeroLab Online profiles would be accessible during server issues. Their recent server outage proved that wasn't true either.
• They promised MORE functionality than HeroLab Classic. Even simple features like searching for text in a list (like finding all chaotic neutral gods or specific weapons) wasn't even in the beta (given the preceeding items in this list, I refuse to pay anything for HeroLab Online).

We definitely need more alternatives.

[Nylanfs]

Welcome to the forums and FG Community SpringheeledJak!